Controversial Spider-Man Opinions

[Metamorphosis]

But Peter has rarely been incompetent, he was just trying to balance his personal life with superheroics and that's why his science acumen got pushed to the side. At least the public application did, because he used mad science skills to take down various supercriminals.

The classic superhero model has all but been erased, but there's a solid concept behind the secret identity, the guy who seems like he's a flake because his life has been compartmentalized and no one sees every side of it. That's very true to life. There are days where your professional life suffers because you're trying to keep everything together at home, and vice versa.

That's why I like Peter as a grad assistant or a teacher. It's one of those jobs that people pay lip service to, but they're often thinking, "If Peter had really applied himself, he could be doing real science." At the same time, what could be more important than teaching a new generation of kids to love science?

Most of us would like to believe that we're special, that we've accomplished things that people won't always see the same way we do. No one really cheers you on for making it through the day when you've got a migraine, after all--but sometimes those feel like the most monumental victories of all.

Peter has always had a lot to be proud of, but even more so because he's not looking for credit. He just does the right thing even though it costs him a lot and makes him appear flaky.

I don't think having Nick Fury and other heroes recognize Peter's greatness has served the Spider-Man mythos well. And looking at Spider-Man these days, it's gone well past Charlie Brown kicking the football, as he's suddenly become Tom Brady.

Excellent post.

[Ascended]

But Peter has rarely been incompetent, he was just trying to balance his personal life with superheroics and that's why his science acumen got pushed to the side. At least the public application did, because he used mad science skills to take down various supercriminals.

The classic superhero model has all but been erased, but there's a solid concept behind the secret identity, the guy who seems like he's a flake because his life has been compartmentalized and no one sees every side of it. That's very true to life. There are days where your professional life suffers because you're trying to keep everything together at home, and vice versa.

That's why I like Peter as a grad assistant or a teacher. It's one of those jobs that people pay lip service to, but they're often thinking, "If Peter had really applied himself, he could be doing real science." At the same time, what could be more important than teaching a new generation of kids to love science?

Most of us would like to believe that we're special, that we've accomplished things that people won't always see the same way we do. No one really cheers you on for making it through the day when you've got a migraine, after all--but sometimes those feel like the most monumental victories of all.

Peter has always had a lot to be proud of, but even more so because he's not looking for credit. He just does the right thing even though it costs him a lot and makes him appear flaky.

I don't think having Nick Fury and other heroes recognize Peter's greatness has served the Spider-Man mythos well. And looking at Spider-Man these days, it's gone well past Charlie Brown kicking the football, as he's suddenly become Tom Brady.

Well said.

I should have clarified, I dont think Steve or Thor should *actually* think "I wanna be like this guy". I was just trying to express the idea that, after spending half his life in the mask, an adult Parker should have his act together and have learned how to balance the various aspects of his life. It seems like he struggles to find that balance more than most, and by this point I feel like he should have a stronger grasp on things. Not to say that someone cant throw a wrench into things from time to time, but he should be beyond the point where, on a typical day, getting to work (mostly) on time, defeating the threat, and then getting to May's in time (mostly) for dinner is a challenge.

Maybe Ive got it wrong. Like I said, Im no expert. I pop into a Spidey book from time to time, at least a few times every year, trying to find the appeal. And those experiences have left me with the opinion that a lot of Parker's problems are problems of his own making.

[David Walton]

Well said.

I should have clarified, I dont think Steve or Thor should *actually* think "I wanna be like this guy". I was just trying to express the idea that, after spending half his life in the mask, an adult Parker should have his act together and have learned how to balance the various aspects of his life. It seems like he struggles to find that balance more than most, and by this point I feel like he should have a stronger grasp on things. Not to say that someone cant throw a wrench into things from time to time, but he should be beyond the point where, on a typical day, getting to work (mostly) on time, defeating the threat, and then getting to May's in time (mostly) for dinner is a challenge.

Maybe Ive got it wrong. Like I said, Im no expert. I pop into a Spidey book from time to time, at least a few times every year, trying to find the appeal. And those experiences have left me with the opinion that a lot of Parker's problems are problems of his own making.

I get what you're saying, but as far as time management goes, there's not much you can do when you're working on the villain's clock. Peter can't exactly control when there's a prison breakout, bank robbery, or supervillain rampage.

And the funny thing about life is that very few people have it together, because the moment you've 'mastered' something, the goalposts change. You get good at being a student, you graduate. You learn to live with yourself, you get married. You learn to live with an adult, you have kids. You excel at your job and then struggle to stay relevant in your field.

Peter's life was always in some kind of flux, so much so that you'd almost cut him some slack even if you didn't know he was fighting crime in his spare time. But of course, the audience does know, and that's why he's never been a screw-up.

[Ascended]

I get what you're saying, but as far as time management goes, there's not much you can do when you're working on the villain's clock. Peter can't exactly control when there's a prison breakout, bank robbery, or supervillain rampage.

And the funny thing about life is that very few people have it together, because the moment you've 'mastered' something, the goalposts change. You get good at being a student, you graduate. You learn to live with yourself, you get married. You learn to live with an adult, you have kids. You excel at your job and then struggle to stay relevant in your field.

Peter's life was always in some kind of flux, so much so that you'd almost cut him some slack even if you didn't know he was fighting crime in his spare time. But of course, the audience does know, and that's why he's never been a screw-up.

Okay, so recommend me something to show me the error of my thinking. What trade should I get next Wednesday? What is going to show me that Parker's not his own worst enemy and that he's got his act together more than I am giving him credit for? Not trying to be contrary here, if thats how this is coming across. Im actually, honestly asking. I've been reading comics for over two decades and have yet to "get" Parker. So where should I be looking?

If it helps, I enjoy the hell out of Miles and Gwen, and found Parker to be really well handled in Spider-Men. I loved Ultimate Peter (though I did end up dropping off halfway in due to budget cuts). I had a blast with SpOck (possibly my favorite ever, just because we got to see a villain use villain methods to try and be a hero).

[Tuck]

It really was.

See, that's the kind of adult Peter I want to see. Someone who makes Captain America and Thor go "I want to be like this guy when I grow up!" I feel like that hasn't happened, and every time Parker gets close to becoming that guy, he sabotages himself. It feels like, I dunno, he never learns his lesson. I'm all for the underdog, but I dont find incompetency very inspiring. And I know that's harsh but that's the conclusion my (admittedly limited) experience with Parker has lead me to.

I've always gotten the feeling that the other heroes see Peter as a sometimes irritating ham, but that the general consensus is that he is one of, if not the, hero with the strongest character of them all. That maybe they sometimes fear he is in over his head, but that if you polled them, they'd consider him to be the best person among them.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

There's that panel everyone loves from the Ultimate universe where Captain America is holding Parker after Parker got shot, and he tells the kid "when you grow up you're gonna be the best of us". I feel like 616 Parker never achieved that. I feel like he has been held back by Marvel's desire to keep some shades of his teenaged self in the mythos.

This reminds me of the time in the greatest Avengers cartoon when Cap tells Spidey a lesson he learned from him, and Spidey innocently replies "Can I be your sidekick?".

Man, Cap and Spidey should be good buddies.

[Spidercide]

Controversial opinions:

I don't think Flash Thompson should be Venom

Spider-Girl by DeFalco is waaaaaaaaaaay better than anything in Ultimate Spider-Man

Ultimate Spider-Man, with or without Miles, is extremely overrated as is Bendis

J.M. DeMatteis when he was on his A-Game was a better Spider-Man writer than anybody.

Peter David is a better Spider-Man writer than Roger Stern

Gwen Stacy sucked as a character

Spider-Gwen is a good idea but her ongoing has sucked

Miles Morales servers to exist just not in the 616 universe

The new 2099 stuff is good but it should be set in the future

Superior Spider-Man was godawful

Ben Reilly was cool and should come back to life

Spider-Man should gradually age

Spider-Man isn't as guilt riddled as people think he is

Spider-Man isn't about guilt. He is about responsibility and his guilt is just a result of that

1980s Spider-Man was better than every other decade of Spider-Man

Kraven and Harry Osborn should've never come back.

I wish Aunt May had stayed dead although I like her in JMS' run

Harry's death in Spec #200 was better than Norman's in ASM #122

Dan Slott's run of Spider-Man has been the single most creatively damaging run to Spider-Man of all time

The Spider-Man franchise currently is incredibly broken and has been for many years

[Aruran.]

I think I said it earlier in this thread, but I really do think Peter's intelligences hurts Spider-Man in the long run and it would be better if Spider-Man was always average intelligences.

The only real reason you'd want Peter to be intelligent is because of him making the webshooters.

[Scott Taylor]

Usually I've seen him as more "inventor intelligent" than "genius intelligent." His strength is in thinking fast and clearly while improvising with limited resources. As far as people intelligence, he's terrible. He's also not the most logical hero out there.

In Star Trek terms, he's more like Scott than Spock.

[Spidercide]

Usually I've seen him as more "inventor intelligent" than "genius intelligent." His strength is in thinking fast and clearly while improvising with limited resources. As far as people intelligence, he's terrible. He's also not the most logical hero out there.

In Star Trek terms, he's more like Scott than Spock.

I think he can be logical. Maybe not Spock logical but like common deductive reasoning logical. A lot the times when he isn't is writers refusing to let him act his age.

In regards to his intelligence I think he's not socially savvy in some ways but I think you couldn't call him merely average level intelligence because the web shooters thing is too big of a deal. Scientifically he's a prodigy no two ways about it. But I think that only hurts the character in so far as like Batman's intelligence hurts him or Iron man's hurts him. Really Batman and Iron Man should never be able to lose a fight that they have any idea of going into but they do because suspension of disbelief. We can apply that to Spider-Man too because who wants to honestly see Spider-Man have agadget or costume to deal with any number of events as opposed to improvising on the fly?

[Keeper of the Crows]

But Peter has rarely been incompetent, he was just trying to balance his personal life with superheroics and that's why his science acumen got pushed to the side. At least the public application did, because he used mad science skills to take down various supercriminals.

The classic superhero model has all but been erased, but there's a solid concept behind the secret identity, the guy who seems like he's a flake because his life has been compartmentalized and no one sees every side of it. That's very true to life. There are days where your professional life suffers because you're trying to keep everything together at home, and vice versa.

That's why I like Peter as a grad assistant or a teacher. It's one of those jobs that people pay lip service to, but they're often thinking, "If Peter had really applied himself, he could be doing real science." At the same time, what could be more important than teaching a new generation of kids to love science?

Most of us would like to believe that we're special, that we've accomplished things that people won't always see the same way we do. No one really cheers you on for making it through the day when you've got a migraine, after all--but sometimes those feel like the most monumental victories of all.

Peter has always had a lot to be proud of, but even more so because he's not looking for credit. He just does the right thing even though it costs him a lot and makes him appear flaky.

Exceptionally great post. The struggle to do the right thing day after day and have it go unrecognized is one of the things I relate to most with Peter Parker. Also, it makes his occasional moments in the sun and victories all the sweeter. It's one of the most inspirational aspects of the character (to me personally, every bit as much as 'with great power comes great responsibility').

[Agent Z]

I think I said it earlier in this thread, but I really do think Peter's intelligences hurts Spider-Man in the long run and it would be better if Spider-Man was always average intelligences.

The only real reason you'd want Peter to be intelligent is because of him making the webshooters.

And even then you can still have the web shooters be organic as opposed to artificial. Because with the latter you have to ask where the hell Peter got the materials for those things.

[David Walton]

Exceptionally great post. The struggle to do the right thing day after day and have it go unrecognized is one of the things I relate to most with Peter Parker. Also, it makes his occasional moments in the sun and victories all the sweeter. It's one of the most inspirational aspects of the character (to me personally, every bit as much as 'with great power comes great responsibility').

Yeah, exactly. Whenever Peter pulled off a personal victory, it always felt HUGE.

It's sort of like when Nimoy's Spock had flashes of humanity, which were more special because they were subtle and rare.

And Scott, I agree that Peter is more 'inventor' smart than genius level. For the most part, Peter used very basic scientific principles to accomplish his goals. That's why his dynamic with Ock was always so much fun. Ock was clearly more naturally brilliant than Peter could ever be, but he just couldn't see the middle school science stuff coming. Ock was too smart for his own good!

[Ascended]

And even then you can still have the web shooters be organic as opposed to artificial. Because with the latter you have to ask where the hell Peter got the materials for those things.

I know Im gonna get a ton of hate for this, but I liked the organic webs. In the movies, anyway. Changing it around in the comics felt weird and unnatural. Would be fine (with me) if they went that route for fresh versions though.

Anyway, what should I be reading if I want to get Parker?

[Aruran.]

And even then you can still have the web shooters be organic as opposed to artificial. Because with the latter you have to ask where the hell Peter got the materials for those things.

And that really played a role in some of the criticism in TASM.
In the Raimi films had organic, while TASM had Peter take web fluid from Oscorp and make the webshooters.
One's believable, the other is a stretch.