Controversial Spider-Man Opinions

[Snoop Dogg]

ps4 spider-man had weak combat mechanics, shallow enemy design, and subpar boss fights

shattered dimensions is the peak of these 3 things in a spider-game and is also the best one

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I mean, two of those are "He has bad relationships with women", which in no way is ever going to define if someone is gay or not, some people just have rotten luck, or are shitty in relationships.

It's not just that Harry has bad relationships with women, it's that he has consistently bad relationships with women. He's often unhappy and unsatisfied.

Which reminds me that Bendis said something like that to "justify" Iceman being gay

Might be dollar store psychology, but it's not such a bad leap. And Iceman coming out was the best thing that ever happened to him, seems like. He's come into his own as a character since then.

Being homosocial, that can indicate something, but it'd depend on how he reacts when among men, and he keeps it platonic, people can separate platonic relationships from possibly sexual ones, so yeah.

Obviously we see the story mostly from Peter's perspective. But it wouldn't surprise, certainly not in the Lee-Romita era and later that Harry had a major crush on Peter that was never gonna be reciprocated because Peter's a hetero. That would make him Sal Mineo to Peter's James Dean, for those who've seen Rebel without a cause.



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Controversial Spider-Man Game opinions.
--Web of Shadows is a great game.
--Mysterio in Spider-Man Activision 2000 is not only best game Mysterio he's best Mysterio period, superior to Jake Gylenhaal.
--The best boss fights in any Spider-Man Game are in Spider-Man The Movie (2002) by Activsion where Spidey swings and battles Vulture and Goblin in the skies as they scuttle across the city.
-- Open World is not by default the only or the best way to do Spider-Man.
-- The civilian sections in the PS4 game (Miles, MJ) are not only good but they are essential and great, and should remain in the sequels.

[PCN24454]

It's not just that Harry has bad relationships with women, it's that he has consistently bad relationships with women. He's often unhappy and unsatisfied.

Might be dollar store psychology, but it's not such a bad leap. And Iceman coming out was the best thing that ever happened to him, seems like. He's come into his own as a character since then.

Obviously we see the story mostly from Peter's perspective. But it wouldn't surprise, certainly not in the Lee-Romita era and later that Harry had a major crush on Peter that was never gonna be reciprocated because Peter's a hetero. That would make him Sal Mineo to Peter's James Dean, for those who've seen Rebel without a cause.

You do realize a lot of these traits apply to Peter (and incels) too, right?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You do realize a lot of these traits apply to Peter (and incels) too, right?

There's evidence to indicate that incels are deeply closeted homosexuals destroyed and ruined by macho identity-posturing and so on, so yeah.

As for Peter...he doesn't remotely qualify. He's always been in a relationship and aside from the Spider-Man side, those relationships are normal and healthy, and emotionally Peter is a giving partner.

[NC_Yankee]

There's evidence to indicate that incels are deeply closeted homosexuals destroyed and ruined by macho identity-posturing and so on, so yeah.

As for Peter...he doesn't remotely qualify. He's always been in a relationship and aside from the Spider-Man side, those relationships are normal and healthy, and emotionally Peter is a giving partner.

You are exactly right. People try and analyze and over analyze Peter. The only objective way to look at Peter is through the comics themselves. Peter compared to most comic book characters with Super powers would actually qualify as quite normal. He has relationships ( romance as well as male friends), he has seldom forgotten who he is and where he came from, he is certainly not an elitist ( let alone have a “Napoleonic Complex”). Why? You can go back to the lessons learned from Aunt May and Uncle Ben. Compare that upbringing to Norman Osborn, Harry, Otto or even MJ. The fact he goes to a Met game on the anniversary of Uncle Ben’s death is proof of how important Uncle Ben was. ASM 33 ( I argue his greatest victory) was proof of how important Aunt May was ( and still is).

[TheCape]

There's evidence to indicate that incels are deeply closeted homosexuals destroyed and ruined by macho identity-posturing and so on, so yeah.

As for Peter...he doesn't remotely qualify. He's always been in a relationship and aside from the Spider-Man side, those relationships are normal and healthy, and emotionally Peter is a giving partner.

Well, he was very inmature regarding Betty, to the point that he seemingly tried to propose to one-up Ned, but he was a dumb kid back then, so i kind of get it (and is not like Betty wasn't immature or unreasonable many times) and it was a good growing expirience for him.

He could had treated Deb better in a couple of ocassions, but they never entered in a forman relationship (they were only in a couple of dates if i remember correctly) but to his credit he did try to make up for it as much as he could.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Well, he was very inmature regarding Betty, to the point that he seemingly tried to propose to one-up Ned, but he was a dumb kid back then, so i kind of get it (and is not like Betty wasn't immature or unreasonable many times) and it was a good growing expirience for him.

He could had treated Deb better in a couple of ocassions, but they never entered in a forman relationship (they were only in a couple of dates if i remember correctly) but to his credit he did try to make up for it as much as he could.

Interesting thing about Deb Whitman.

Roger Stern said in an interview (in the same fanzine with the JMS stuff I made a post about) that the secret of Deb Whitman was that she was visually the female version of Ditko's Peter Parker. Frank Miller who worked on Spec. at the time pointed this out and that blew the minds of everyone at the Spider-office.

So that subtext probably does explain the weird way Deb Whitman was treated in the story. Subconsciously it feels like Peter's dating his identical twin sister, and Peter rejecting Deb at least reflects a degree of confidence, disassociation, and independence on his side even if obviously he should have handled it better.

[TheCape]

Interesting thing about Deb Whitman.

Roger Stern said in an interview (in the same fanzine with the JMS stuff I made a post about) that the secret of Deb Whitman was that she was visually the female version of Ditko's Peter Parker. Frank Miller who worked on Spec. at the time pointed this out and that blew the minds of everyone at the Spider-office.

So that subtext probably does explain the weird way Deb Whitman was treated in the story. Subconsciously it feels like Peter's dating his identical twin sister, and Peter rejecting Deb at least reflects a degree of confidence, disassociation, and independence on his side even if obviously he should have handled it better.

Guest that explain why in the 90s cartoon he called "the sister i never had...or wanted" lol.

[NC_Yankee]

Interesting thing about Deb Whitman.

Roger Stern said in an interview (in the same fanzine with the JMS stuff I made a post about) that the secret of Deb Whitman was that she was visually the female version of Ditko's Peter Parker. Frank Miller who worked on Spec. at the time pointed this out and that blew the minds of everyone at the Spider-office.

So that subtext probably does explain the weird way Deb Whitman was treated in the story. Subconsciously it feels like Peter's dating his identical twin sister, and Peter rejecting Deb at least reflects a degree of confidence, disassociation, and independence on his side even if obviously he should have handled it better.

Keep in mind “Opposites attract identical repel.” Peter’s two most successful relationships ( MJ and Felicia) are the exact opposite of him. As far as independence is concerned, Peter is more independent then most heroes. He is not thrown on some island like the mutants to isolate themselves from the human race nor does he hang out in Avengers Mansion away from the general population, nor does he abandon Peter Parker for 24/7 Spider-Man.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Naw, that in production mask looks like a pissed off version of a Harry Potter house elf.

The Goblin's frozen helmet fixed in a demonic looking grin with sharp fangs (just to look cool) is excellent. The Golden Yellow lenses look demonic and hellish especially when he threatens Aunt May. There's a HR Giger reference in terms of the sloped forehead and curved back which looks like a Xenomorph and that adds to the creepy factor.

That's fair, but I like the idea of the Green Goblin looking a bit theatrical. Hellish demons and Xenomorphs aren't what I personally associate with the character. Both Spider-Man and Green Goblin are performers to an extent, so I like the idea of them both wearing something you expect to see on stage.

Exactly. The usual goblin outfit is in fact more purplish than Green. The Tunic he wears is purple as is the cap and gloves and while I get that Ditko was going for a Kirby-esque medieval-modern mash, i.e. having a folklore Goblin riding around on a glider, that's something Kirby does better. Having said that I liked how the traditional green and purple goblin looked in Spectacular Spider-Man, but in general all green or mostly green works better. The cool part is in the fights with Spidey. Primary colors of Red and Blue, and Green and Yellow pop up in their fights, especially the Unity Day battle and the burning apartment one.

Same. That and the look from Death in the Family are my two favorite Goblin looks. I think what works about the SSM look is the different shades in purple and how it doesn't just look like he put on a solid purple shirt on top of his costume. The pocket pouches are also an improvement (I never bought he could do all those acrobatics with a big bag). He looks like an actual goblin wearing flexible body armor:



Although I still don't like that he looks like he isn't wearing pants.

I have mentioned this once or twice. I guess this is also a controversial opinion. Re-reading Spider-Man comics, it makes sense to me that Harry is a deeply closeted gay man or a bisexual with a preference for men.
-- He's a victim of toxic masculinity courtesy of who his Dad is.
-- He's never had any good relationships with women all his life -- Dumped by Gwen and MJ, divorced by Liz Allan, betrayed by Hollister.
-- Generally homosocial.
-- Think of every girl Harry has been with, either they dumped or moved on to Peter (Gwen), or saw him as sloppy seconds from Peter (MJ), or in the case of his ex-wife Liz Allan, a girl who had a huge crush on Peter. Then after he comes back from the dead, he gets cheated on by his girlfriend who sleeps with his Dad. His relationships with women are still in a sense reflections of his connections to men.

Now some will point out that Harry has fathered children and so on, but that's not an issue. It's possible for closeted gay men to do that, what counts is the nature of the relationships he has. Harry is like Fredo from The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, a guy who made it with 'cocktail waitresses, two at a time' but is also quite familiar with the subculture of Havana and is often considered by a lot of people to be a closeted gay man. I think Harry's psychology, his toxic relationships with Peter and his dad, and his lack of fulfilling relationships with women makes more sense that way. Was this intended by the writers? Absolutely not. But does it kind of fit and explain his character trajectory in the story? I believe so.

I don't know if that's convincing evidence. I know a lot of guys that have a toxic dad and are homosocial but are straight. They're usually very Harry-esque. They're insecure and don't have a lot of confidence to pursue women and maintain relationships. It's due to a mixture of not knowing how to reciprocate, having a fear of attachment, and in a lot of cases being a bitter petty person (which Harry kinda is). I guess people can interpret him as gay but I don't know if the premises necessarily support the conclusion.

[JTHM]

There's evidence to indicate that incels are deeply closeted homosexuals destroyed and ruined by macho identity-posturing and so on, so yeah.

While it is true that some incels are homosexuals who overcompensate by over-adherence to the societal standards of masculinity, I think this is badly phrased. Most incels, I would reckon, are not simply homosexuals who try to hide it. A lot of them are merely insecure people who have lots of self-esteem and value issues that they project in their relationship with women. I don't think Peter (Or even Harry) are or were really incels for that matter, since I don't think they ever measured their value by their success with women or the normal, societal standards for toxic masculinity.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

That's fair, but I like the idea of the Green Goblin looking a bit theatrical. Hellish demons and Xenomorphs aren't what I personally associate with the character.

Medieval goblins were often conflated with demons. Goblins were also associated with greed and gold, and also known for dwelling in caves and other places, which fits Green Goblin's penchant for secret hideaways. So i think it fits.

Same. That and the look from Death in the Family are my two favorite Goblin looks. I think what works about the SSM look is the different shades in purple and how it doesn't just look like he put on a solid purple shirt on top of his costume. The pocket pouches are also an improvement (I never bought he could do all those acrobatics with a big bag).

Agreed. The cartoon version has Goblin wearing a surcoat over his Goblin-mail coat. That's basically a medieval knight outfit where they wore a kind of toga over their steel mail that covered their front chest and formed a kind of skirt below their belt. Doctor Doom sports a Green surcoat with a hooded cape. So that surcoat looks is better than the purple tunic, and it also compensates for the lack of pants.

Green Goblin is very Kirby-esque among Ditko's designs. Ditko often designed his villains with a more modern and contemporary spin or patterned off animals and generally having weird squiggly shapes and off-designs that he liked. So Chameleon, Vulture, Scorpion, Doctor Octopus having metallic arms and a civilian labcoat was another modern design. Mysterio who is another Ditko original in visual looks. But with Green Goblin he did a mix of modern and medieval that was really Kirby's thing in design philosophy. Kirby had a fondness for dated medieval attire, either real or Renfair theme park, as well as Mayan and Mesoamerican inspirations. Witness Asgard, Doctor Doom, New Gods among others, Kirby famously gave Scarlet Witch that Wimple head-dress because he liked Renfaire design, he gave Magneto a kind of Dark Ages helmet with a horn sigil affixed on forehead, he modelled the Sentinel Helmet on Olmec Head.

The Raimi suit doesn't really have any medieval touches on it at all. It's completely science-fiction but the demonic element comes through when he attacks Aunt May mid-prayer and says "finish it".

I don't know if that's convincing evidence. I know a lot of guys that have a toxic dad and are homosocial but are straight. They're usually very Harry-esque. They're insecure and don't have a lot of confidence to pursue women and maintain relationships. It's due to a mixture of not knowing how to reciprocate, having a fear of attachment, and in a lot of cases being a bitter petty person (which Harry kinda is). I guess people can interpret him as gay but I don't know if the premises necessarily support the conclusion.

That's just my interpretation and while I think it makes sense, I can totally get that others won't.

[Spider-Tiger]

Controversial opinion: Spider-man Life Story and Spider-man Blue are both overrated.

Spider-man Blue is a mediocre story with phenomenal art. Its characters are hollow, its story melodramatic, and I find the premise to be a bit unsettling. At least it's coherent and does "nostalgia" well. It's certainly beautiful to look at and I think the artwork really sells it.

Spider-man Life Story is just a poorly constructed story from start to finish. Characters are introduced and never mentioned again. Plot threads are left dangling in the wind. The story's final act doesn't naturally follow the set-up of its first couple of issues. Otto's motivations made no sense. Peter was butchered. MJ was butchered.

I'm not even sure Bagley's style really suited this type of book. You dont get a sense of the 60s/70s/80s by looking at his work. They either should have gone with different styles for each decade (Ditko for the 60s, a traditional "house" look for the 70s, McFarlane for the 80s, Bagley for the 90s, JRJR for the 2000s, etc. ) or used an artist like Alex Ross to ground the story in photorealism (like a biopic in comic book form.)

[Revolutionary_Jack]

...or used an artist like Alex Ross to ground the story in photorealism (like a biopic in comic book form.)

Okay a controversial comics opinion, not just a Spider-Man one.

I dislike Alex Ross as an artist. Dislike his cover-art, dislike his pencils, dislike Kingdom Come, Marvels and I hate that Norman Rockwell sunburst photorealism he trafficks in. I get why people like it, but to me that art style is highly superficial, sentimental, and schmaltzy in its sentiment and nostalgia.

It's comics art for people who don't like comics arts.

[Agent Z]

I'm not sure I like Peter beating up Kingpin in prison. On one hand, it was cathartic to have Peter show his power. OTOH, a hero should never "bully" a villain.

I don't see how Peter was the bully in that case. Fisk had his aunt shot and didn't even need to leave prison for it to happen. Peter wasn't a bully in that scenario, he was a victim getting payback. Perhaps not the most noble of motivations but far from a bully.