Controversial Spider-Man Opinions

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Most of the current Gwen Stacy backlash has little to do with any problems with the character and is driven by extreme MJ fans who are taking out their anger over Marvel's mishandling of MJ out on Gwen. I prefer MJ over Gwen but the way certain fans treat Gwen's mere existence like a war crime is every bit as ludicrous as those who blame the Spider-Marriage for the bad writing in the 90s.

I'd say this is pretty fair.

[Lukmendes]

One of then being mind crotrolled is not impossible.

Sure that's an option, but point is that they wouldn't willingly fight each other, at best only sparring matches.

Hopefully we don't get into 2000s Batman territory when it comes to Peter and Miles.

The hell was up with 2000's Batman?

Most of the current Gwen Stacy backlash has little to do with any problems with the character and is driven by extreme MJ fans who are taking out their anger over Marvel's mishandling of MJ out on Gwen. I prefer MJ over Gwen but the way certain fans treat Gwen's mere existence like a war crime is every bit as ludicrous as those who blame the Spider-Marriage for the bad writing in the 90s.

In my case, I like to use Gwen as a punching bag because for someone who's supposedly one of Spidey's big love interests, she's a rather bland character, someone that big being that bland? Come on, what's there not to mock? .

[TheCape]

Sure that's an option, but point is that they wouldn't willingly fight each other, at best only sparring matches.



The hell was up with 2000's Batman?



In my case, I like to use Gwen as a punching bag because for someone who's supposedly one of Spidey's big love interests, she's a rather bland character, someone that big being that bland? Come on, what's there not to mock? .

2000s Batman is pretty often a complete ******* to his family, is not like that all the time and they had good moments, but DC keeps this weird cycle when he treats then bad, realized that he did wrong, tries to improve for a while and then we go back to square one with then, is really annoying is one of the reasond for why i prefer almost every version of Bruce outside the comic book one in the last 2 decades at least.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

In my case, I like to use Gwen as a punching bag because for someone who's supposedly one of Spidey's big love interests, she's a rather bland character, someone that big being that bland? Come on, what's there not to mock? .

Using Gwen as a punching bag is inevitable when people use Gwen as a cudgel to attack MJ.

Many writers dismiss Mary Jane or downplay her by insisting that Gwen Stacy is the true love and it becomes irritating and toxic because it's clear that the people who say this haven't read the original comics, or don't actually want to bring Gwen back as the true love...rather they say it to denigrate and downplay MJ, after all if Peter's true love is some dead out of reach girl, than any relationship after that is some rebound you can discount.

Then there's the hypocrisy of it when they cite Emma Stone's Gwen as a reason for it being better when she's nothing at all like the original character.

So I'd say some amount of long overdue correction is required, and so bashing Gwen became the new thing.

[Frontier]

I mean, I don't try and bash Gwen but I feel like there's been a lot of instances of writers trying to make her more than she actually was as a character and, in some respects, using that to prop her up over MJ. I mean, that canceled Gwen mini had so much revisionism going on in it that it's not even funny in my opinion.

I think she should have significance to the franchise and mythos, and I'm fine with Earth-65 Gwen, but I don't think there's much left to mine from the original.

[PCN24454]

Using Gwen as a punching bag is inevitable when people use Gwen as a cudgel to attack MJ.

Many writers dismiss Mary Jane or downplay her by insisting that Gwen Stacy is the true love and it becomes irritating and toxic because it's clear that the people who say this haven't read the original comics, or don't actually want to bring Gwen back as the true love...rather they say it to denigrate and downplay MJ, after all if Peter's true love is some dead out of reach girl, than any relationship after that is some rebound you can discount.

Then there's the hypocrisy of it when they cite Emma Stone's Gwen as a reason for it being better when she's nothing at all like the original character.

So I'd say some amount of long overdue correction is required, and so bashing Gwen became the new thing.

I'm very glad that you say that because then that means I'm completely justified in bashing MJ into oblivion.

[PCN24454]

I mean, I don't try and bash Gwen but I feel like there's been a lot of instances of writers trying to make her more than she actually was as a character and, in some respects, using that to prop her up over MJ. I mean, that canceled Gwen mini had so much revisionism going on in it that it's not even funny in my opinion.

I think she should have significance to the franchise and mythos, and I'm fine with Earth-65 Gwen, but I don't think there's much left to mine from the original.

The problem I have with that logic is that it feels like hindsight bias. Would you have gotten married if you knew that you'd only get divorced later?

Since we know that his relationship with other women won't work out, they become a waste of time in a period where people already consider there to be too much filler.

[Frontier]

The problem I have with that logic is that it feels like hindsight bias. Would you have gotten married if you knew that you'd only get divorced later?

Since we know that his relationship with other women won't work out, they become a waste of time in a period where people already consider there to be too much filler.

Coming at it from my perspective, it wasn't so much that his relationships with other women were pointless so much as they helped Peter develop into the person he is when he marries MJ. Gwen's death had a significant impact on Peter.

[Agent Z]

Using Gwen as a punching bag is inevitable when people use Gwen as a cudgel to attack MJ.

Many writers dismiss Mary Jane or downplay her by insisting that Gwen Stacy is the true love and it becomes irritating and toxic because it's clear that the people who say this haven't read the original comics, or don't actually want to bring Gwen back as the true love...rather they say it to denigrate and downplay MJ, after all if Peter's true love is some dead out of reach girl, than any relationship after that is some rebound you can discount.

Then there's the hypocrisy of it when they cite Emma Stone's Gwen as a reason for it being better when she's nothing at all like the original character.

So I'd say some amount of long overdue correction is required, and so bashing Gwen became the new thing.

I haven't seen any writers use Gwen to attack MJ. Saying they see her as the love of Peter's life or that they simply prefer her over MJ is not an attack or even a sign they hate MJ.

I have seen MJ fans insulting Gwen by calling her boring, deserving of her death, a white supremacist, a snob, calling her and Peter's relationship toxic etc. Citing Emma Stone's portrayal as the reason they like Gwen is no more hypocritical than people saying they like Iron Man because of Robert Downey, Jr or they like Ant-Man because of Scott Lang. Everyone has an iteration of a character that speaks to them and Gwen had her fans before the ASM movies.

[Frontier]

I haven't seen any writers use Gwen to attack MJ. Saying they see her as the love of Peter's life or that they simply prefer her over MJ is not an attack or even a sign they hate MJ.

It comes off as an attack on the validity of Peter's relationship with MJ and how much he loved her versus Gwen, especially since the height of it was at a time when people were severely downplaying Mary Jane's role in the franchise.

I have seen MJ fans insulting Gwen by calling her boring, deserving of her death, a white supremacist, a snob, calling her and Peter's relationship toxic etc. Citing Emma Stone's portrayal as the reason they like Gwen is no more hypocritical than people saying they like Iron Man because of Robert Downey, Jr or they like Ant-Man because of Scott Lang. Everyone has an iteration of a character that speaks to them and Gwen had her fans before the ASM movies.

But I think it's important to acknowledge how different the film version of Gwen was from the comic version, and that comic Gwen was flawed.

[TheCape]

I mean, I don't try and bash Gwen but I feel like there's been a lot of instances of writers trying to make her more than she actually was as a character and, in some respects, using that to prop her up over MJ. I mean, that canceled Gwen mini had so much revisionism going on in it that it's not even funny in my opinion.

I think she should have significance to the franchise and mythos, and I'm fine with Earth-65 Gwen, but I don't think there's much left to mine from the original.

That's more or less where i am. But i do try to stay away from that discourse as much as i can, recently i've had been reading the Lee/Dikto/Romita era and althoutght i think that Gwen wasn't as bad as some fans told me, i definetly won't say that i like her all that much. I'm ambivalent with all the other versions of her.

[PCN24454]

But I think it's important to acknowledge how different the film version of Gwen was from the comic version, and that comic Gwen was flawed.

I both understand this and disagree with it. You're talking about how Gwen seems to be treated as perfect, but no one seems to call her out on her flaws, right?

I feel like the reason why that happens is that Peter and George were sexist at the time and they didn't think that Gwen would understand their complaints was because she was a woman and thus overly emotional by nature. Most of the "can't say anything bad about her" naturally came after she died.

[Frontier]

I both understand this and disagree with it. You're talking about how Gwen seems to be treated as perfect, but no one seems to call her out on her flaws, right?

I feel like the reason why that happens is that Peter and George were sexist at the time and they didn't think that Gwen would understand their complaints was because she was a woman and thus overly emotional by nature. Most of the "can't say anything bad about her" naturally came after she died.

I mean, definitely the way she was treated by the people around her to some extent didn't help.

[JTHM]

It comes off as an attack on the validity of Peter's relationship with MJ and how much he loved her versus Gwen, especially since the height of it was at a time when people were severely downplaying Mary Jane's role in the franchise.

You can think one relationship as above another or preferring it, and still not invalidate other people's views on other relationship. So far, no one has brought Gwen back from the grave to dump on MJ and pair her back with Peter, so I would say most writers have been capable of handling those thoughts without messing or being mean-spirited with Peter's relationship with MJ. After all, they are completely beholden to that opinion too. You don't have to love the Peter-MJ relationship to write Spider-Man.

[Lukmendes]

2000s Batman is pretty often a complete ******* to his family, is not like that all the time and they had good moments, but DC keeps this weird cycle when he treats then bad, realized that he did wrong, tries to improve for a while and then we go back to square one with then, is really annoying is one of the reasond for why i prefer almost every version of Bruce outside the comic book one in the last 2 decades at least.

I remember that Batman being a piece of ****, it's why Infinite Crisis even happened, since Batman being such a piece of **** is one of the many things that pissed off Earth 2 Supes, wasn't aware that extended to his family though.

Wonder if Batman being such a piece of **** in the comics is why YJ Bruce is so uncharacteristically nice... Even though the cartoon tries to pretend he's the usual Bruce lol.

Using Gwen as a punching bag is inevitable when people use Gwen as a cudgel to attack MJ.

Nah I don't care about this shipping war, only reason I even kinda like Peter and MJ being together is because it improves their characters (Specially MJs), if it didn't, or they were better off separated, then I'd prefer for them to not be together, or at least hoping that if they are to be together, for their characters to improve.

So yeah, I just mock Gwen for being said to be this major, yet, she's worse as a love interest than even Debra Whitman, or at least as bad as Debra lol.

Many writers dismiss Mary Jane or downplay her by insisting that Gwen Stacy is the true love and it becomes irritating and toxic because it's clear that the people who say this haven't read the original comics, or don't actually want to bring Gwen back as the true love...rather they say it to denigrate and downplay MJ, after all if Peter's true love is some dead out of reach girl, than any relationship after that is some rebound you can discount.

Then there's the hypocrisy of it when they cite Emma Stone's Gwen as a reason for it being better when she's nothing at all like the original character.

So I'd say some amount of long overdue correction is required, and so bashing Gwen became the new thing.

Sounds like an "eye for an eye" situation, like, sure, Gwen is a bad character, but bashing can easily reach toxic levels, so better be careful with that.

I mean, I don't try and bash Gwen but I feel like there's been a lot of instances of writers trying to make her more than she actually was as a character and, in some respects, using that to prop her up over MJ. I mean, that canceled Gwen mini had so much revisionism going on in it that it's not even funny in my opinion.

I think she should have significance to the franchise and mythos, and I'm fine with Earth-65 Gwen, but I don't think there's much left to mine from the original.

Oh yeah, forgot that mini, did it manage to finish when the whole Corona nonsense was happening or was it cancelled?

I'm very glad that you say that because then that means I'm completely justified in bashing MJ into oblivion.

Nah, there's no justification at all, 'cause you definitely don't have the moral high ground with this kind of mentality.

That's more or less where i am. But i do try to stay away from that discourse as much as i can, recently i've had been reading the Lee/Dikto/Romita era and althoutght i think that Gwen wasn't as bad as some fans told me, i definetly won't say that i like her all that much. I'm ambivalent with all the other versions of her.

Best Gwen is Ditko Gwen, those eyebrows were epic .