Controversial Spider-Man Opinions

[Kevinroc]

I don’t hate the Raimi films. I just think they’re overrated and 1 and 3 are supremely mediocre. I never... and I mean never clash with Raimi fans outside of this thread. Don’t worry, you have tons of safe spaces for your Raimi love. You are the one who started this by initially pushing back on me when I said I didn’t care for them... again in the Controversial Opinion thread. So whether you want to continue this or not is all up to you, kiddo.

I didn't mention the Raimi films in my initial post that put forth this discussion.

And you don't need to be so condescending. My controversial Spider-Man opinions are, indeed, controversial.

I would love to have that perfect Peter Parker film that absolutely encapsulates the character and his world, but it doesn't exist. The Raimi films are the closest we've got. And the first one of those is nearly 20 years old at this point.

[HypnoHustler]

I didn't mention the Raimi films in my initial post that put forth this discussion.

And you don't need to be so condescending. My controversial Spider-Man opinions are, indeed, controversial.

I would love to have that perfect Peter Parker film that absolutely encapsulates the character and his world, but it doesn't exist. The Raimi films are the closest we've got. And the first one of those is nearly 20 years old at this point.

I wasn’t replying to you about anything I disagreed with. I was replying because you brought up the films, so I was using it as a springboard for my own thoughts on the films.

Anyway, I have no problem with you and no wish to continue this increasingly pointless back-and-forth about the films. I’ve already said all I care to say about the matter.

[Frontier]

The ASM films had their problems but I feel like they did get a few things right that I appreciated.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

It looks like the rumors of Maguire and Garfield having a role in the next film were just rumors, but I would have loved to see Garfield play Spider-Man again under a great script this time (and also technically in an MCU film). I think his performance would have surprised people. And I agree with whoever said that he had the best voice for Spider-Man.

[Frontier]

It looks like the rumors of Maguire and Garfield having a role in the next film were just rumors, but I would have loved to see Garfield play Spider-Man again under a great script this time (and also technically in an MCU film). I think his performance would have surprised people. And I agree with whoever said that he had the best voice for Spider-Man.

Same here .

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Same here .

This might be a stretch, but maybe that's part of why it never happened? If we apply the ITSV concept to the three actors, Garfield would be the default Prime Spider-Man while Tobey would be the older worn-out Spider-Man and Holland would be the young inexperienced one. I was wondering how they can pull that off without Garfield stealing the show from their main character (Holland's). Even ITSV killed off Chris Pine's Spider-Man early on so they could fixate more on Miles.

I don't mean to make a conspiracy theory out of this. I'm just saying that might have been one of the reasons the story pitch was rejected, if it was ever even considered.

[Frontier]

This might be a stretch, but maybe that's part of why it never happened? If we apply the ITSV concept to the three actors, Garfield would be the default Prime Spider-Man while Tobey would be the older worn-out Spider-Man and Holland would be the young inexperienced one. I was wondering how they can pull that off without Garfield stealing the show from their main character (Holland's). Even ITSV killed off Chris Pine's Spider-Man early on so they could fixate more on Miles.

I don't mean to make a conspiracy theory out of this. I'm just saying that might have been one of the reasons the story pitch was rejected, if it was ever even considered.

To be honest I didn't think Holland would come off that well in a team-up between the past two film Spider-Men. He has to juggle the spotlight enough in his own movies as is.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

To be honest I didn't think Holland would come off that well in a team-up between the past two film Spider-Men. He has to juggle the spotlight enough in his own movies as is.

I thought a team-up could bring out the best in each actor. Holland's insecure and inexperienced nature works much better when paired up with the other two Spider-Men (as does his need for a mentor), and Maguire's quiet reserved nature works better for an older Spider-Man who's gone through a lot of crap.

But I also see how any of the other Spider-Men could hurt Holland's. His version is arguably the only one that isn't a fleshed-out character and is more-or-less an empty shell.

[Frontier]

I thought a team-up could bring out the best in each actor. Holland's insecure and inexperienced nature works much better when paired up with the other two Spider-Men (as does his need for a mentor), and Maguire's quiet reserved nature works better for an older Spider-Man who's gone through a lot of crap.

But I also see how any of the other Spider-Men could hurt Holland's. His version is arguably the only one that isn't a fleshed-out character and is more-or-less an empty shell.

I think he's fleshed out, it's just in the sense that he's kind of this corporate driven MCU Spider-Man who gets lost in the grand scheme of the overarching universe that works against him standing out as much as he could.

[Spider-Tiger]

The ASM films had their problems but I feel like they did get a few things right that I appreciated.

The casting of those movies was great. I really liked Sally Field as Aunt May, and Emma and Andrew had great chemistry.

But I think Emma Stone was perhaps the best Mary Jane that never was... and I'm still perplexed as to how they thought it was a good idea to cast her as the lesser developed, lesser known girlfriend who dies in the sequel... is that controversial?

Then again, many of the creative choices made in those movies are just mind-boggling to me.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

But I think Emma Stone was perhaps the best Mary Jane that never was...

My controversial take, which I mentioned before and will reiterate now, is that Emma Stone's Gwen is a very poorly written and concieved character, and is far inferior to Laura Harrier's Liz, leave alone KD's MJ and Zendaya's MJ.

She is very much based on Ultimate Mary Jane but she absolutely is not an effective substitute to MJ in any shape and form.

... and I'm still perplexed as to how they thought it was a good idea to cast her as the lesser developed, lesser known girlfriend that dies... is that controversial?

The producers never really understood Gwen Stacy and her actual function in the story, even in the story of her death. They removed all the dramatic baggage such as her hating Spider-Man, blaming him for her father's death, her poor relationship with Aunt May.

They basically made Emma Gwen similar to Busiek/Ross' take on her in MARVELS and that version of the character makes sense when you glimpse her from the nostalgia-laden style of Ross, and the perspective of Sheldon but it can never actually function as a co-lead of her own movies as the Garfield movies set her to be. And that meant that they shouldn't have killed her off when they did.

Ideally they could have used SPIDER-MAN BLUE as a model. That way you can tell the Peter/MJ/Gwen love triangle and you have more options than picking a lane that you could never fully follow down all the way.

[Kevinroc]

My controversial take, which I mentioned before and will reiterate now, is that Emma Stone's Gwen is a very poorly written and concieved character, and is far inferior to Laura Harrier's Liz, leave alone KD's MJ and Zendaya's MJ.

She is very much based on Ultimate Mary Jane but she absolutely is not an effective substitute to MJ in any shape and form.



The producers never really understood Gwen Stacy and her actual function in the story, even in the story of her death. They removed all the dramatic baggage such as her hating Spider-Man, blaming him for her father's death, her poor relationship with Aunt May.

They basically made Emma Gwen similar to Busiek/Ross' take on her in MARVELS and that version of the character makes sense when you glimpse her from the nostalgia-laden style of Ross, and the perspective of Sheldon but it can never actually function as a co-lead of her own movies as the Garfield movies set her to be. And that meant that they shouldn't have killed her off when they did.

Ideally they could have used SPIDER-MAN BLUE as a model. That way you can tell the Peter/MJ/Gwen love triangle and you have more options than picking a lane that you could never fully follow down all the way.

I absolutely agree with all of this. They replaced any sense of tension in Peter and Gwen's relationship with poor foreshadowing over her death.

[Frontier]

I definitely think the film banked too much on making the female lead a character that was destined to die and hinging so much on her and her relationship with Peter.

She is very much based on Ultimate Mary Jane but she absolutely is not an effective substitute to MJ in any shape and form. .

The only thing she really has in common in Ultimate MJ is being Peter's confidante and girlfriend. Characterization (and definitely socially) they were very different.

[Kevinroc]

The only thing she really has in common in Ultimate MJ is being Peter's confidante and girlfriend. Characterization (and definitely socially) they were very different.

I thought they did a poor job conveying that. Peter knew Gwen so little at the start of that first movie that he didn't even know that she knew his name. At least in Ultimate Peter and MJ were established as friends who knew each other and Peter told her because she was his best friend.

[Frontier]

I thought they did a poor job conveying that. Peter knew Gwen so little at the start of that first movie that he didn't even know that she knew his name. At least in Ultimate Peter and MJ were established as friends who knew each other and Peter told her because she was his best friend.

I mean, again, it was different. He crushing hard on her because she was like the "it girl" which Ultimate Mary Jane definitely wasn't.