Controversial Spider-Man Opinions

[Spiderfan001]

Okay here's a controversial opinion I've been keeping from myself for some time.

"Face it tiger" is a terrible nonsensical line of dialogue that makes no damn sense. It's an overrated bit and not at all essential to Mary Jane as a character.

Having this bizarre fixation on Stan Lee's bizarre attempt to write dialogue for a character that he admitted he lost control over, is people letting their nostalgia goggles override their senses.

It makes sense for MJ in comics, it's a cheesy one-liner.Maybe follow it up w/ her saying she read it somewhere and wanted to try it, etc.

Zendaya MJ would never say that specially first time meeting someone.

[Frontier]

I don't really see how the line doesn't make sense? It's a proud declaration of how much of a catch she is. It shows off her confidence and how lucky she thinks Peter is.

It basically establishes her confidence, her "mask," and her sassiness.

And it establishes her pet name for Peter.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I don't really see how the line doesn't make sense? It's a proud declaration of how much of a catch she is. It shows off her confidence and how lucky she thinks Peter is.

It basically establishes her confidence, her "mask," and her sassiness.

And it establishes her pet name for Peter.

I get what people think the line signifies but I don't see the actual line doing any of the stuff people think it does.

And I don't know something about a girl calling herself a "Jackpot" for a guy to score...well it's suggestive if we are being charitable, it's sexist if we are being critical. It's sleazy if we want to be brutally straight about it. You can't use that line that way anymore. Which is why adaptations generally make it so MJ calls Peter tiger or make it "Go get 'em tiger" (at the end of SM-2 and the PS4 game) but never the full line.

And ultimately Mary Jane evolved significantly away...the Mary Jane that currently exists in 616, and in most adaptions isn't Stan Lee's version it's Gerry Conway's (with an assist from Roger Stern and Tom Defalco).

[Frontier]

I get what people think the line signifies but I don't see the actual line doing any of the stuff people think it does.

And I don't know something about a girl calling herself a "Jackpot" for a guy to score...well it's suggestive if we are being charitable, it's sexist if we are being critical. It's sleazy if we want to be brutally straight about it. You can't use that line that way anymore. Which is why adaptations generally make it so MJ calls Peter tiger or make it "Go get 'em tiger" (at the end of SM-2 and the PS4 game) but never the full line.

And ultimately Mary Jane evolved significantly away...the Mary Jane that currently exists in 616, and in most adaptions isn't Stan Lee's version it's Gerry Conway's (with an assist from Roger Stern and Tom Defalco).

I think it's less the idea of "scoring" moreso just the confidence she's projecting and that she thinks of herself as a catch that you're lucky to spend five minutes with. I mean, it is suggestive, but I don't think there's anything wrong with an innuendo or two.

Like, the 90's cartoon and Spectacular used the line in full. Did it really come off sleazy there? And in like the next episode of Spec there's the "Randy" line.

The MJ that currently exists in 616 is at her core the woman that Lee introduced and Conway developed.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Like, the 90's cartoon and Spectacular used the line in full. Did it really come off sleazy there? And in like the next episode of Spec there's the "Randy" line.

Interestingly, Greg Weisman said a producer initially wanted that line cut, because he thought it made MJ sound conceited. Weisman convinced him to leave it after explaining the history behind it.

I always read that as MJ trying to sound confident and corny at the same time. I also like seeing other people's reactions to it, like in To Have and To Hold when Detective Lamont says it would have scared him off. lol

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Interestingly, Greg Weisman said a producer initially wanted that line cut, because he thought it made MJ sound conceited. Weisman convinced him to leave it after explaining the history behind it.

I always read that as MJ trying to sound confident and corny at the same time. I also like seeing other people's reactions to it, like in To Have and To Hold when Detective Lamont says it would have scared him off. lol

Lamont said more that it was a terrible line and so on. The only way it would work is MJ felt awkward saying it and was internally tap dancing hoping it sounded cool and Peter is so dorky he actually bought it.

[Spiderfan001]

I don't really see how the line doesn't make sense? It's a proud declaration of how much of a catch she is. It shows off her confidence and how lucky she thinks Peter is.

It basically establishes her confidence, her "mask," and her sassiness.

And it establishes her pet name for Peter.

This, makes perfect sense for MJ.
I can't see Michelle saying tha to Peter when they first met

[Agent Z]

Yeah, I don't see anything particularly offensive about the line. I don't think it has to be referenced in every adaptation or re-telling but at worst its just silly and outdated not really sexist.

[Kevinroc]

"Face it, tiger" is perfect for a lot of reasons. It says everything about MJ that we need to know on the first panel we finally meet her (as Frontier said). It says a lot about Aunt May that this is the girl she has been trying to set Peter up with for almost 30 issues (Aunt May was ready to have them married while Ditko was still on the book). She's a "wild child" of the 60s whose name is literally Mary Jane that seems so off for a potential partner for Peter Parker.

Aunt May had up until that point been portrayed as a joke. A senile old woman that was completely out of touch with reality. Once MJ starts showing real traces of actual empathy, we start to see what Aunt May saw in this girl, and why she was so insistent on setting Peter up with her. So it doesn't just show that MJ is a caring empathetic person, it also shows that Aunt May isn't quite the senile old fool she had been portrayed as.

I definitely get why Conway was more interested in MJ than in Gwen.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Aunt May had up until that point been portrayed as a joke. A senile old woman that was completely out of touch with reality. Once MJ starts showing real traces of actual empathy, we start to see what Aunt May saw in this girl, and why she was so insistent on setting Peter up with her. So it doesn't just show that MJ is a caring empathetic person, it also shows that Aunt May isn't quite the senile old fool she had been portrayed as.

Funnily enough, Roger Stern said that his motivation for creating Mary Jane's backstory as a runaway from a broken home was that he wanted to explain why Aunt May once believed he and MJ would be a great match. Stern felt that Aunt May couldn't be a joke or be totally wrong so there had to be a legitimate foundation so he created Mary Jane's backstory and had Aunt May confess to Peter in ASM#243, that "the two of you have lost so much" as a way of explaining to Peter why the two would have gotten along.

What Stern didn't intend was that his backstory would double down and make MJ even more central since he made MJ more similar to Peter and so more perfectly matched than before, and so against his intention and control, he set the stage for Peter-MJ to be married.

I definitely get why Conway was more interested in MJ than in Gwen.

Conway's drug of choice at the time of his run was LSD though, not marijuana.

Neither Lee nor Ditko were on drugs or knew anything of drug culture and Mary Jane is a common enough name outside the drug reference.

[Kevinroc]

Funnily enough, Roger Stern said that his motivation for creating Mary Jane's backstory as a runaway from a broken home was that he wanted to explain why Aunt May once believed he and MJ would be a great match. Stern felt that Aunt May couldn't be a joke or be totally wrong so there had to be a legitimate foundation so he created Mary Jane's backstory and had Aunt May confess to Peter in ASM#243, that "the two of you have lost so much" as a way of explaining to Peter why the two would have gotten along.

What Stern didn't intend was that his backstory would double down and make MJ even more central since he made MJ more similar to Peter and so more perfectly matched than before, and so against his intention and control, he set the stage for Peter-MJ to be married.

The relationship between Aunt May and MJ is one of my favorite things about the Spider-Man franchise. That these characters have lives and relationships outside of Peter, but that can end impacting Peter in major ways. There's a lot of subtext involved with Aunt May and MJ.

[Frontier]

Interestingly, Greg Weisman said a producer initially wanted that line cut, because he thought it made MJ sound conceited. Weisman convinced him to leave it after explaining the history behind it.

I always read that as MJ trying to sound confident and corny at the same time. I also like seeing other people's reactions to it, like in To Have and To Hold when Detective Lamont says it would have scared him off. lol

It was part of the party girl personality she projected.

This, makes perfect sense for MJ.
I can't see Michelle saying tha to Peter when they first met

Well, Michelle and MJ don't really have a lot of common characteristics aside from having facade's and not taking @#$%.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The relationship between Aunt May and MJ is one of my favorite things about the Spider-Man franchise. That these characters have lives and relationships outside of Peter, but that can end impacting Peter in major ways. There's a lot of subtext involved with Aunt May and MJ.

If you read the Lee-Romita era, Peter moves in with Harry at his loft in Manhattan and away from Queens and it's presented a few times that Peter enjoys the sitcom Proto-Friends life with Gwen and Harry and is neglecting his Aunt. However there are quite a few issues, especially around the Drug Trilogy which shows MJ paying regular visits to her Aunt and keeping in touch with May, proving that she's never too cool for her.

I always felt that May saw herself in MJ, both of them are working-class girls who never let life's struggles and disappointments embitter them or lose their cheerfulness and in the benignest Freudian sense, it makes all the sense for Peter to end up with the girl who reminds him most of his maternal figure.

Louise Simonson's wonderful story ASM Annual #19 had May and Anna inform MJ that her on-off relationship with Peter was a lot like May/Ben when they were their age (which worked itself in a few lines in Spider-Man PS4 I think).

Whereas May never got on well with Gwen Stacy, and my favorite part in the First Clone Saga was when MJ was worried about Peter being distracted by this Clone Gwen, May tells her to the effect of "fight for your man" (and the subtext is keep that blonde FoxNews princess away from Peter).

[Jman27]

yeah aunt may in her age is still getting guys after ben's death. imagine her prime if you dont count trouble I believe

[Spiderfan001]

yeah aunt may in her age is still getting guys after ben's death. imagine her prime if you dont count trouble I believe

Ehh I prefer her and Uncle ben to be on again off again and their only serious relationship