Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) Appreciation - "Higher, Further, Faster, More!"

[Mike_Murdock]

Then who is Jude Law's character?

According to the promotional material, he is "Starforce Commander." I think he's Mar-Vell, but I'm starting to lean towards the idea of her getting her powers then meeting Mar-Vell.

And don't forget, when she first got her powers, she didn't know it - Carol Danvers and Ms. Marvel were two different personalities. Carol would regularly have blackouts. When she fainted, Ms. Marvel emerged. We now know that was Car-Ell. At the time, the Kree personality only called herself Ms. Marvel. Later, the two personalities got merged, prompting Carol to change the costume to the black one with the thunderbolt.

This story hasn't explicitly addressed that or how it happened. I might come up with some theories, but I'll hold off for now.

[ed2962]

I would say the Psyche-Magnetron didn't even activate her powers. The implication is it was activated as a defense mechanism from the explosion. To me, her fascination with space could be any reason. Her mother thinks it's because of her Kree heritage, but it could be for any reason. There's a lot of nature vs. nurture with that.



I tend to agree with that. It makes her powers her own, not a consequences of the actions of anyone else. The story specifically says "not borrowed, not a gift, not an accident." It makes her origin her own story. She isn't the person who got kidnapped by Yon-Rogg who was unconscious at the time of the explosion and who got powers when someone else rescued her because of his sacrifice. Instead, she's someone who got powers as her birthright, although she didn't know it. Was it necessary? I don't know. I've always thought her origin had serious problems and I still do. In fact, I'm going to suggest something controversial: I don't think this has to do with the movie at all and I suspect the movie will go closer to the original origin but without Yon-Rogg or possibly Mar-Vell.

The retcon about Joe's motives make him more sympathetic and less anachronistic in his beliefs.



The only thing she had that wasn't a normal Kree thing was flight. I guess the Seventh Sense thing or whatever, but I thought that was described as a Kree thing. Remember the whole power absorption/Binary thing was due to Brood experimentation and happened later.

And I wanna say that in the early issues she could fly because of a device in her suit.

[Mike_Murdock]

That would make some sense. Mar-Vell also couldn't fly originally. He had rocket packs. Then he could fly due to his NegaBands. I have no idea when he could permanently fly. There was a bit of the original Superman thing where he could jump high because of lighter gravity. Any idea when Ms. Marvel could fly on her own?

In this story, Mari-Ell could at least float, though.

[ed2962]

That would make some sense. Mar-Vell also couldn't fly originally. He had rocket packs. Then he could fly due to his NegaBands. I have no idea when he could permanently fly. There was a bit of the original Superman thing where he could jump high because of lighter gravity. Any idea when Ms. Marvel could fly on her own?

In this story, Mari-Ell could at least float, though.

I'm pretty sure Mar-Vell could never fly on his own. His flight powers came from the Nega-Bands.

Carol definitely gained the power of flight when she became Binary. But in regards to her first volume as Ms Marvel, I'm a little shakey on that. I'm not sure if she got a power boost before that series ended or it's one of those things where the creators forgot how a character's powers actually work and everyone else simply followed suit?

[Tantalus]

The retcon about Joe's motives make him more sympathetic and less anachronistic in his beliefs.

It does and it doesn't actually. It just reiterates what we already knew about Joe, and most dads with misogynistic tendencies: he said all that bs, but he ultimately loved his daughter, he only didn't think she was capable enough. When I was reading Life of Captain Marvel #4, and it was said that Joe was afraid of the Kree, I was immediately afraid that they would use it to excuse his sexist behavior towards Carol, but it didn't. He didn't pay for Carol's tuition because he believed she couldn't handle herself, and couldn't take care of herself because she was a woman, which is sexist. If his attitudes were essentially because of Carol's protection, he wouldn't use lines like "one small step for womankind crap" or tell Carol to marry an astronaut, and Marie wouldn't say that she knew, in her heart, that Joe was wrong of preventing Carol of being who she truly was and that this was wrong. Additionally, Marie wouldn't hock her wedding ring in a pawn shop to pay for Carol's tuition when her father denied to pay for it. Joe didn't think what he thought because Carol was in potential danger, he thought what he thought because she was a woman.

RCO019_w-2.jpgRCO013_1484120571.jpg
The first scan is from Life of Captain Marvel #4 and the second one from Mighty Captain Marvel #0

So, regarding how her father was, the retcon doesn't change anything. The difference is that I believe we've never seen Joe being a loving father before, and how Marie, the wife that already said that loved him a lot, is the one telling the story in flashbacks, we get to see it. But again, nothing new, since:
Captura de Tela 2018-10-17 às 21.48.59.jpg

[Ascended]

Then who is Jude Law's character?

We dont know for sure. His character's name hasn't been given yet.

Most of us assumed he was playing Mar-Vell, but now I'm actually thinking that he's maybe playing Yon-Rogg.

[Tantalus]

We dont know for sure. His character's name hasn't been given yet.

Most of us assumed he was playing Mar-Vell, but now I'm actually thinking that he's maybe playing Yon-Rogg.

90% sure he is playing Yon Rogg. One of the journalists of a famous website here in Brazil that went to the set of the movie said that the production didn't want to give the name of his character, only describing him as the leader of Starforce, or something like that. Even when directly asked for the name of Law's character, they didn't want to give it.

That would make some sense. Mar-Vell also couldn't fly originally. He had rocket packs. Then he could fly due to his NegaBands. I have no idea when he could permanently fly. There was a bit of the original Superman thing where he could jump high because of lighter gravity. Any idea when Ms. Marvel could fly on her own?

In this story, Mari-Ell could at least float, though.

There you go. Ms. Marvel issue #7

RCO019.jpgRCO024.jpg

[Sighphi]

The only thing she had that wasn't a normal Kree thing was flight. I guess the Seventh Sense thing or whatever, but I thought that was described as a Kree thing. Remember the whole power absorption/Binary thing was due to Brood experimentation and happened later.

Only most of her powers at that point.

I thought that was always the case

No, this is new. Apparently all Kree have original Ms Marvel powers. And they go all X-men with them obtaining as teenagers. This is a big retcon, before they just had better natural born physiology.

And I wanna say that in the early issues she could fly because of a device in her suit.

No, she was actually a lady version of Captain Marvel. Her suit was just like his that helped him boost his natural abilities.

[InformationGeek]

Illuminating Comics speak!

Well let’s go back to the main retcon, the big one. Why is it a thing that exist? Simply put, to remove Mar-vell from Carol’s equation. The magnetron explosion didn’t cause Mar-vell’s power to be transferred to Carol, no, it just activated her latent already present super kree powers, a news she takes wonderfully and very emotionally.

Ooooh, congratulations Carol! You’re a REAL hero now. All the times you saved the day before, all the struggles, all the fighting, those finally matter because now we know you didn’t accidentally get your powers from some dude. The power was in YOU ALL ALONG. Before today you were just incomplete, a fake hero, a pretender I guess. Now you can finally take credit for all that stuff you did with your hands, because your powers come from your mother and not from an accident. You’re a real Hero, unlike assholes like Spider-Man. Ah, that poor bastard got powers by complete chance and he wasn’t born with them, what a poser am I right? He wasn’t a chosen one, he didn’t come from a powerful ancient lineage of superspace warriors, HE SUCKS! (Don’t you people try and bring up that Totem-****, I will scream).

It’s all so cynical and fake. All politics, just politics, “Carol can’t be a great FEMALE hero if her powers are tangentially related to those of a man.” People that believe this **** are probably the same ones that don’t read Batwoman or Supergirl comics because of the name. Carol was heroic without being born as such, she was a self-made woman that struggled to get her career going, and despite all adversities, succeeded. She got her powers by accident like countless other heroes, and made the best of the situation, helping others. As Ms. Marvel, she was eclipsing Mar-vell’s role in importance and wider appeal, all this while still being tied up to him.

And now, ironically, the new Ms. Marvel sells much better than her and has a much grander following, and how did Kamala get her powers? A mad king from a flying city blew up his own home and covered the world in with a toxic mutagenic fart, that’s how. Hardly empowering, but that doesn’t seem to be a problem for her, or her sales.

[Punisher007]

The comparison to how Kamala got her powers really doesn't help their argument as that's not even close to being the same thing. That's like saying that Spider-Man is "tied to" the person who made the spider who bit him. Kamala wasn't kidnapped and unconscious when she got her powers last time I checked, nor was she given them because someone directly intervened with her. THAT'S the big difference between a lot of "accidental heroes" and Carol.

And their comparison to Batwoman and Supergirl make even less sense because they're even less relevant.

[Fokken]

I'm into it.

I give precisely zero fux about any perceived parallels to Supergirl or Wonder Woman or anyone for that matter because if anyone digs deep enough they are bound to find similarities, however weak or strong or silly or grand. That's just how it is.
I very much enjoyed this issue.
This changes nothing. Seriously.
She merely found out that what she THOUGHT granted her alien powers (psych mag) STILL granted her alien powers -- in the sense that it ACTIVATED THEM. She learned some crazy **** about her Mom and Dad -- who HASN'T(??) -- but it doesn't change WHO she is. She's still this woman who fought tooth and nail to climb the ladder of success and strove to become the best superhero she could be AND she's half Kree.

THIS JUST IN: GIRD YOUR LOINS KIDDIES. CAROL DANVERS IS HALF KREE.
<gasp>
STILL.
She was a regular walk about town kind of gal, fending off male perception of what a woman was capable of, and then BLAMMO -- she got into some heavy Alien **** that LITERALLY exploded in her face and when the dust settled and she got keyed in on what the aforementioned-face-explosion DID --- well, GUESS WHAT: Carol is HALF KREE.

I cannot understand why folks are up in arms about this reveal that she was ALWAYS low-key-Half-Kree, or that her dick-Dad was actually being a dick because SURE he's a bit of a misogynist but he ALSO was terrified for his daughter's safety as a would-be-Space-Warrior. Doesn't change that he was being a dick -- just gives us some more insight as to what may have motivated SOME of his DICK behavior.

This "retcon" -- in my mind -- is MUCH LESS retcon and much more "blu ray bonus featurette" explaining aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the **** we DIDN'T KNOW that was there all along -- again, that changes NOTHING beyond WHAT CAROL THOUGHT-- and now we DO know and we've got a boat load of NEW GROUND to explore moving forward -- that Kelly Thompson is going to inevitably crush, because she's Rad AF and talented to the 9's.

I found this narrative delightful.
I'm thrilled to FINALLY enjoy Captain Marvel again.

[Ascended]

I haven't read this mini yet (Stohl's burned me enough this is just a trade wait) so I don't really have an opinion on all of this.

But I can see why people are upset about these changes. Yeah, in its way, it changes nothing about Carol's personal journey; she still had a sexist father who underestimated her, she still made her way up through the military ranks on her own, etc etc. It doesn't diminish her achievements or accomplishments, it just opens up new narrative doors we didn't know were there. "Blu-ray bonus feature" sounds about right.

But at the same time, now Carol was born to greatness, rather than having it thrust upon her, and that is a different kind of narrative that does impact different themes. Now instead of blazing a trail of greatness in her family, reaching heights none of her brothers or father ever did, she's just continuing the trail of greatness her super-awesome space mom started.

Again, I haven't read this story yet so I dont really know what Im talking about and judgement will be reserved until I get my hands on it, but I can see why some people would think this was a non-gain. Carol owed a lot of her origin to Mar-Vell.....now she owes a lot of her origin to her mother. It's great for girl power and for insulating Carol's origin within her own setting, but it doesn't appear to be adding any real agency to her, either.

[Fokken]

Yeah, in its way, it changes nothing about Carol's personal journey; she still had a sexist father who underestimated her, she still made her way up through the military ranks on her own, etc etc. It doesn't diminish her achievements or accomplishments, it just opens up new narrative doors we didn't know were there. "Blu-ray bonus feature" sounds about right.

Yes. Thank you. heh.

But at the same time, now Carol was born to greatness, rather than having it thrust upon her, and that is a different kind of narrative that does impact different themes. Now instead of blazing a trail of greatness in her family, reaching heights none of her brothers or father ever did, she's just continuing the trail of greatness her super-awesome space mom started.

Ehhhh. <shrug>
Yes her mom was space-WOW but she never KNEW any of that and has been ladder climbing and expectation-hurdling and inching her way to that glass ceiling (which we now know is apparently on Hala, haha) so if anything she's just acquired fresh new motivation (crippling pressure? lol) by this revelation to be space-WOWIER because: legacy

Again, I haven't read this story yet so I dont really know what Im talking about and judgement will be reserved until I get my hands on it, but I can see why some people would think this was a non-gain. Carol owed a lot of her origin to Mar-Vell.....now she owes a lot of her origin to her mother. It's great for girl power and for insulating Carol's origin within her own setting, but it doesn't appear to be adding any real agency to her, either.

RESPECT.
I look forward to your thoughts post-trade-read

[Triniking1234]

So are they gonna activate her brother's Kree physiology so he can walk again?

[LordUltimus]

So are they gonna activate her brother's Kree physiology so he can walk again?

No, he was from a previous marriage, so he's all human.