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  1. #7501
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    Happy to find a place to rejoice/commiserate. CWII is killing me, but the tie-ins! So good!

    The one thing that's been bugging me the most is that we're through issue 4, and the most incorrect thing to come out of Ulysses' visions is an empty briefcase. I feel like I'd be able to empathize with Team Tony more if he had more than sad grief feelings. At least with other characters, like Kamala/Miles/Sam, you have the moral and ethical quandary. I would love to see them mine more of that stuff! It seems like Tony is just hell-bent on proving Ulysses wrong.

  2. #7502
    Supernatural Inhuman! Lucena Soares's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlerkenCat View Post
    Happy to find a place to rejoice/commiserate. CWII is killing me, but the tie-ins! So good!

    The one thing that's been bugging me the most is that we're through issue 4, and the most incorrect thing to come out of Ulysses' visions is an empty briefcase. I feel like I'd be able to empathize with Team Tony more if he had more than sad grief feelings. At least with other characters, like Kamala/Miles/Sam, you have the moral and ethical quandary. I would love to see them mine more of that stuff! It seems like Tony is just hell-bent on proving Ulysses wrong.
    You, my friend, has resumed all my non-inhuman feelings of CWII right now.
    Everything Lives!

  3. #7503
    Astonishing Member Seren's Avatar
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    Which is really makes sense considering its Tony. He's probably just deeply annoyed that the kid is so accurate and doesn't need a computer to analyze it it :P

    Honestly, other than issue 4 I really do see Carols side in all this. I totally do. Because if you have a tool to use to prevent disaster, why not use it? The problem is, does Ulysses personal biases affect his visions (at least the smaller ones). If they do, Carols in hotter water than she already is. And that's why Medusa sent him off to Karnak in the first place - so he can have all sense of...lots of things, beaten out of him.
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
    Co-Host of the Attilan Rising Podcast Follow @SpiderWomnDaily on Twitter, and check out To Know Her Is To Fear Here: The Spider-Woman Podcast

  4. #7504
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    I do think one of the better things that's come out of this event is getting to see Carol really own it in a leadership position. She's having to make incredibly hard decisions with the best intel she can find. It's not popular with many in the Marvelverse. Not by a longshot. But she's standing by her choices, and truly believes it will help the most people. And that, I have a hard time disagreeing with.

    It did make me sad, though, to see all the cool characters I love standing on the other side of the fence with Riri Williams in the fall previews poster.

  5. #7505
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    The problem is that this premise is built on such a shaky foundation, and has been so poorly executed imo, that her being in a leadership position is almost counterproductive. 1. I'm just so sick and tired of these "hero vs. hero" events in-general. 2. She may be standing by her choices, but unfortunately they've been very poor ones overall imo. So it comes across as just pure stubbornness to me. And 3. if they wanted to put her in a leadership role for a big event (which I have no problem with BTW), it shouldn't have been an event like this, because it's done pretty much none of the characters any favors (which is usually one of the biggest flaws with these types of stories, and this is no exception sadly).

    She isn't coming out of this looking very good, and I hate saying that. But honestly, I'm on Team Tony right now.

  6. #7506
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    The problem is that this premise is built on such a shaky foundation, and has been so poorly executed imo, that her being in a leadership position is almost counterproductive. 1. I'm just so sick and tired of these "hero vs. hero" events in-general. 2. She may be standing by her choices, but unfortunately they've been very poor ones overall imo. So it comes across as just pure stubbornness to me. And 3. if they wanted to put her in a leadership role for a big event (which I have no problem with BTW), it shouldn't have been an event like this, because it's done pretty much none of the characters any favors (which is usually one of the biggest flaws with these types of stories, and this is no exception sadly).

    She isn't coming out of this looking very good, and I hate saying that. But honestly, I'm on Team Tony right now.
    1. Right on, Punisher007. Can we please get back to fighting the GOOD fight against the BAD guys? I'm all for drama and disagreements etc but must it always lead to some epic line being drawn in the sand followed by an overabundance of face hitting? I mean, how do these people legitimately work together after these things so often? I'd be grudging. Hard.

    2. I humbly disagree that Carol's choices have been very poor. The only red flags (for me) were the incident (keep in mind, I'm doing my best to keep up with all the external happenings outside the event title itself) with the suspected Hydra agent (and her empty briefcase) and the manner in which Amadeus Cho was addressed, post loss of Banner.
    Everything else has been completely appropriate (again, imho) given the circumstances. Its her approach since the those 2 red flags that needs serious adjustment. If law enforcement is given a tip about impending crime or wrong doing etc, they should investigate and/or keep watch, but I don't think the skipping due process and detaining citizens against their will without physical evidence proving them guilty is appropriate at all. I still feel that there is room for Carol to be redeemed from these specific blemishes on her behavioral record.

    3. I'm enjoying Civil War. It is brimming with personal drama and forcing my brain to consider multiple angles on a very heated topic and its easily one of the loveliest events in recent years, aesthetically speaking. And the conversations this event is producing are hugely satisfying. The story itself has its "Huh?" moments, like any event really, but overall --- maybe I'm just more easily satisfied than the average reader(?) -- I think its been a fun read.

  7. #7507
    Astonishing Member Seren's Avatar
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    Well said Fokken. I agree with everything you just said.
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
    Co-Host of the Attilan Rising Podcast Follow @SpiderWomnDaily on Twitter, and check out To Know Her Is To Fear Here: The Spider-Woman Podcast

  8. #7508
    Astonishing Member Johnrevenge's Avatar
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    Who do you think will be part of the supporting cast of the movie? It would be interesting if they use many of the supporting characters that appeared in Kelly Sue Deconnick's run of Captain Marvel, I would totally love to see Tracy and Kit. It would also be nice if Monica appeared, as it could also help to set her up to get powers by the end or in future sequels

  9. #7509
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    Weirdly, despite my strong objections to Carol's role in the series in advance - an before a certain bald writer feels smug, despite not bothering to actually read a single issue to date - I've pretty much come around entirely to the Pro-Whatever-This-Is side. Two factors are to blame: Ultimates #6 (the Galactus one) and me putting way too much thought into fantasy pitches in other threads.

    You remember (if you read it) how that Ultimates issue drew a parallel between Galactus' new status quo and the Sisypheus myth? Basically admitting that no matter how far you go, how much progress you make, there's always a force waiting to drag you back down? Yet Galactus and others in such a situation continue to push anyway because they believe the progress is still necessary, even if it is ultimately wiped clean? Keep that thought in your head while I go on a different tangent.

    Every time I think about superheroes these days, I am left unimpressed.

    This isn't a bah-humbug old person problem, I promise. I'm still in love with a lot of Marvel characters, I'm still buying probably more comics than I should, and I'm still a sucker for bright costumes and melodramatic punching. The problem is I've been thinking about how these people work within their world, what they could do versus what they do do, and the difference between those two feels immense. Consider the overall pantheon of superfolk hanging around NYC most days. There ranks include theoretical geniuses, the cream of the military crop, industrialists, attorneys, diplomats, spiritual gurus, medical professionals...even a guy like Luke Cage has use beyond generic hero business - he's practically the face of Harlem, and could use that to provide for the place on a local government level. Overall, these people are exceptional, a cut above, the architects of a better world. And with all of those talents, all that experience AND goddamn superpowers, they...

    ...they put down bad guys and occasionally pull people out of burning buildings.

    You don't need superheroes for that. A tooled-up SWAT team and some firefighters could handle that. Sending in the Avengers for that is like trying to get the weeds out of your back garden by setting off a nuke. It's wasteful and will almost certainly cause more problems than it solves.

    How does Civil War 2 fit in? Ulysses and his visions aren't magically going to fix all of that overnight, obviously. But by making the basic, mundane aspects of superheroing easier to manage, it frees up more time and hands to start thinking outside the box and get some actual work done. I'm not wholly sure if Carol has realized that level of potential yet, but I believe she will sooner rather than later. And that's a good thing. It's well past time to stop worrying about saving the world, and start worrying about fixing it. Meanwhile Iron Man has a problem with this. I can't begin to comprehend on a character level since it's the exact opposite of what he would do, or has done, at any other time ('push new beneficial technology to the limits with no regard for potential problems' is THE story of Tony Stark's life), but on a more thematic level what he's doing is simply defending the status quo. His argument is little more than a giant placard with NO printed on it. Don't push things! Don't think differently! Don't do anything that hasn't been done before! If it ain't broke don't fix it! Except that the world is broken and has been for years, and no matter how many times you spank the Red Skull it's never gonna get better unless you're prepared to roll up your sleeves and fix some s***.

    To bring it back to the Galactus issue: In Civil War 2, Tony Stark is the cruel gravity of narrative stagnation. And like she does with regular gravity, Carol is determined to push away from him.

    Is her plan perfect? No, of course not. Nothing in the Marvel universe is. But it's at least a first step toward a better tomorrow, which is always better than keeping both feet rooted in yesterday's rotting innards.



    inb4 someone snarks about how I'm complaining about the fundamental nature of superhero comics. So what? Nature can change, you know. It's called evolution.
    The X-Books Board is wretched and does not deserve the Domino Appreciation Thread.

  10. #7510
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    In A-Force 08 think became clear Carol and Medusa created the future they wanted to avoid with Nico. They try to arrest her and that put her on the road to Ulysses vision happen if not for the intervention of Carol this would not even started.

  11. #7511

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    In A-Force 08 think became clear Carol and Medusa created the future they wanted to avoid with Nico. They try to arrest her and that put her on the road to Ulysses vision happen if not for the intervention of Carol this would not even started.
    is that a fact? or is Carol's intervention just one thing that would have led Nico down that path? villainy is either in a person or isn't; as proven in today's issue of Spider-man.

  12. #7512
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    So I received the turnaround catalogue in work today. Turnaround is the company that handles most of Marvel's distribution in the UK. They usually include little selling points with their adverts and the advert for the new Captain Marvel volume (This one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Captain-Mar...1548618&sr=1-2) included this selling point:

    "Captain Marvel - Played by Brie Larson - will make her big screen debut in 2017's Guardians of the Galaxy 2"

    That hasn't been confirmed has it? Her first appearance is presumed to be her solo movie? I mean the catalogue also advertised Duggan's Uncanny Avengers as a perfect jump on for fans of Age of Ultron and Civil war and I understand it's only sent out to bookstores but still, I know Marvel are tight lipped on the movie details and wouldn't want possible (?) details printed in a catalogue advertising their stuff.

  13. #7513

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnrevenge View Post
    Who do you think will be part of the supporting cast of the movie? It would be interesting if they use many of the supporting characters that appeared in Kelly Sue Deconnick's run of Captain Marvel, I would totally love to see Tracy and Kit. It would also be nice if Monica appeared, as it could also help to set her up to get powers by the end or in future sequels
    Tracy Burke (I was hoping that it would be Sharon Stone but alas...)
    Thaddeus Ross
    Chewie
    J Jonah Jameson cameo

  14. #7514

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben11345 View Post
    So I received the turnaround catalogue in work today. Turnaround is the company that handles most of Marvel's distribution in the UK. They usually include little selling points with their adverts and the advert for the new Captain Marvel volume (This one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Captain-Mar...1548618&sr=1-2) included this selling point:

    "Captain Marvel - Played by Brie Larson - will make her big screen debut in 2017's Guardians of the Galaxy 2"

    That hasn't been confirmed has it? Her first appearance is presumed to be her solo movie? I mean the catalogue also advertised Duggan's Uncanny Avengers as a perfect jump on for fans of Age of Ultron and Civil war and I understand it's only sent out to bookstores but still, I know Marvel are tight lipped on the movie details and wouldn't want possible (?) details printed in a catalogue advertising their stuff.
    it was confirmed; if you're talking about the Brie Larson casting.

    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 08-18-2016 at 12:47 PM.

  15. #7515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    it was confirmed; if you're talking about the Brie Larson casting.
    I was talking about her being in Guardians 2

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