Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) Appreciation - "Higher, Further, Faster, More!"

[Darthfury78]

I think it was necessary to move Carol forward. She had often felt a little like her life was out of her control, or at the least like she was a victim as often as not, and if you want to elevate her to the A-list, that cant happen.

I do agree though that the same troupe being used got tiresome. But then again, Carol and KSD are far from the only characters/creators to do that. How many times has Batman *nearly* killed the Joker, or seen Gotham leveled? How often has Bruce Banner *nearly* escaped The Hulk? It happens in American comics, since nothing is allowed to really evolve or grow beyond the status quo. Recycled themes are a part of the genre (not a part I like, but still a part).

It's too bad that Marvel doesn't like to take big risks. Otherwise, we might have seen the characters(like Peter Parker x Carol Danvers relationship) move forward towards finding a common ground. The problems rest with the Chief Creative Officer, Publisher, and Editor in Chief to allow the writers the freedom to do their stories without interference. That way, we might get better stories moving forward. But the memory wipe of Carol Danvers is just a repeat of what happened in the early 1980's.

[Mark]

There is a slight difference there, if you cure the Hulk there is no series, if you kill the Joker the marketing department at DC/Warner rebels. Carol at the time of her last memory wipe did have her life under control, there was no need that I could see to send her back in time.

I think it was necessary to move Carol forward. She had often felt a little like her life was out of her control, or at the least like she was a victim as often as not, and if you want to elevate her to the A-list, that cant happen.

I do agree though that the same troupe being used got tiresome. But then again, Carol and KSD are far from the only characters/creators to do that. How many times has Batman *nearly* killed the Joker, or seen Gotham leveled? How often has Bruce Banner *nearly* escaped The Hulk? It happens in American comics, since nothing is allowed to really evolve or grow beyond the status quo. Recycled themes are a part of the genre (not a part I like, but still a part).

[Ascended]

It's too bad that Marvel doesn't like to take big risks. Otherwise, we might have seen the characters(like Peter Parker x Carol Danvers relationship) move forward towards finding a common ground. The problems rest with the Chief Creative Officer, Publisher, and Editor in Chief to allow the writers the freedom to do their stories without interference. That way, we might get better stories moving forward. But the memory wipe of Carol Danvers is just a repeat of what happened in the early 1980's.

I think it actually has very little to do with the creative department and everything to do with the marketing. Spider-Man is a household name and everyone knows at least a little bit about the character. But if you allow the comics to continue and grow and evolve, eventually you'll move so far away from the well known status quo that the character within the comics stops being marketable. If you were to pick up an issue of Spawn today, you'll find it has very little resemblance to what we read about in the early 90's. And for Spawn, who isnt a big money-maker and doesnt have a big larger market presence, thats fine. But for some of the big names at Marvel or DC, that means you cant milk the comics for merchandise because the general public wont recognize anything. That's why Image and the other indies can get away with really progressive long-form storytelling like Invincible and Spawn but DC and Marvel, at the most, will allow some of the secondary C list characters to age a few years and thats it.

There is a slight difference there, if you cure the Hulk there is no series, if you kill the Joker the marketing department at DC/Warner rebels. Carol at the time of her last memory wipe did have her life under control, there was no need that I could see to send her back in time.

Well, I was using the argument of extremes to prove the point, but you're right. My examples carry a much bigger impact on their respective franchises.

[stingnewell]

Except KSD wasn't trying to take the easy route. What she wanted to do was take Carol's past and make it something the character herself played a bigger role in. The memory wipe was meant to give Carol more agency - the first time, it was something done to her, KSD made it a conscious choice.

It wasn't the work of some amateur trying to make things easy on herself by just resetting the character to zero. KSD's a professional writer, and a talented one, and she wanted to do something specific with Carol. She had a couple stories she wanted to tell with the character, so she told those stories.

I'm aware of the bad experience Carol has endured do I like most o them no but some of them her loss of powers from Rogue made her comeback full force while making new friends. With the memory wipe you've taken away many of her good triumphs over her tragedies and connections with her friends and family just to make an entirely new character who will likely make the same mistakes again. But to each is own and this conversation is at a standstill so agree to disagree.

[AmiMizuno]

Is the reboot any good?

[John Ossie]

Is the reboot any good?

Relaunch. And yes it is good so far imo.

[Captain Wessex]

i'm enjoying it.

[Shadowcat]

Is the reboot any good?

I'm enjoying it. It's still pretty mediocre, story wise, but Lopez is killing it on the art front.

[Darthfury78]

I think it actually has very little to do with the creative department and everything to do with the marketing. Spider-Man is a household name and everyone knows at least a little bit about the character. But if you allow the comics to continue and grow and evolve, eventually you'll move so far away from the well known status quo that the character within the comics stops being marketable. If you were to pick up an issue of Spawn today, you'll find it has very little resemblance to what we read about in the early 90's. And for Spawn, who isnt a big money-maker and doesnt have a big larger market presence, thats fine. But for some of the big names at Marvel or DC, that means you cant milk the comics for merchandise because the general public wont recognize anything. That's why Image and the other indies can get away with really progressive long-form storytelling like Invincible and Spawn but DC and Marvel, at the most, will allow some of the secondary C list characters to age a few years and thats it.

I do agree to some extent. But I feel that when it comes to the people who Peter has interacted with in the past, his friendship with some of them should evolve in a manner to how it was with Felicia Hardy, Johnny Storm, Logan, and Matt Murdock respectively. A good example was Carol Danvers, Jessica Drew, and Silver Sable. But, Marvel killed those developments. And Carol's memory wipe(for now at least) killed the friendship development between Carol and Peter because had it continued, they would have realized another thing that they have in common: The loss of a loved one to the hands of their worst enemy.

[Rochedalaix]

I'm enjoying it. It's still pretty mediocre, story wise, but Lopez is killing it on the art front.

The story is mediocre but to be honest that is the best you can ask for because all of Carols stories after Claremont, range from mediocre to terrible. She is a great character being put in crappy stories by Marvel editorial and she hasn't had anything unique about her since she was Binary, and even when she was Binary she would get jobbed by characters she had no business jobbing to. Also her current uniform is just the standard Red, Blue and yellow whoopdee do, her Binary Uniform was better, and at this point I think she would have been better off if she just stayed with the Starjammers.

At this point I'm only buying Captain Marvel out of loyalty for the character and in hopes Kelly can make me excited about the character again.

[Shadowcat]

Well, Thanos seems like too big a threat to be called the foe of just one hero but I get what you mean. As for the rest, I'd be down with any of them but Mr. Negative really hit a chord. That's good, I wish I had thought of him!

I'd also like to see her deal with the Juggernaut, but mostly just because I love that character and would love seeing Carol make fun of his helmet even more.

Like she has any room to talk about stupid looking helmets...lol

[Shadowcat]

The story is mediocre but to be honest that is the best you can ask for because all of Carols stories after Claremont, range from mediocre to terrible. She is a great character being put in crappy stories by Marvel editorial and she hasn't had anything unique about her since she was Binary, and even when she was Binary she would get jobbed by characters she had no business jobbing to. Also her current uniform is just the standard Red, Blue and yellow whoopdee do, her Binary Uniform was better, and at this point I think she would have been better off if she just stayed with the Starjammers.

At this point I'm only buying Captain Marvel out of loyalty for the character and in hopes Kelly can make me excited about the character again.

OMGYES!!!! Binary Carol>>>>All other versions. Seriously, she needs to interact with the Starjammers sooo bad.

I honestly think someone of the caliber of Greg Rucka could really elevate this character to the position she deserves. Kelly just doesn't get what makes Carol tick. That was the thing in the last series that really ticked me off with the reboot of her character. Just lazy writing, and it's not just KSD that's guilty of this.

[Rochedalaix]

OMGYES!!!! Binary Carol>>>>All other versions. Seriously, she needs to interact with the Starjammers sooo bad.

I honestly think someone of the caliber of Greg Rucka could really elevate this character to the position she deserves. Kelly just doesn't get what makes Carol tick. That was the thing in the last series that really ticked me off with the reboot of her character. Just lazy writing, and it's not just KSD that's guilty of this.

What annoys me about the direction Marvel took with Carol is how much potential was wasted, if she stayed with the Starjammers and kept her Binary powers come Rise and Fall of the Shiar empire, she would have been the leader of the Starjammers instead of that loser Havok, and had a lot more stories to be in like War of Kings, Kingbreaker, and she probably even could have guest starred in Annihilation Conquest, and more importantly she would have avoided the way Marvel vilified her for all these years especially during the Civil War.

Instead of dreaming of living up to her potential, like a child if she stayed with the Starjammers she would have actually accomplished it and than some. Also instead of Black Bolt vs. Vulcan, we would have had a Binary vs. Vulcan and that would have been superb.

[Shadowcat]

What annoys me about the direction Marvel took with Carol is how much potential was wasted, if she stayed with the Starjammers and kept her Binary powers come Rise and Fall of the Shiar empire, she would have been the leader of the Starjammers instead of that loser Havok, and had a lot more stories to be in like War of Kings, Kingbreaker, and she probably even could have guest starred in Annihilation Conquest, and more importantly she would have avoided the way Marvel vilified her for all these years especially during the Civil War.

Instead of dreaming of living up to her potential, like a child if she stayed with the Starjammers she would have actually accomplished it and than some. Also instead of Black Bolt vs. Vulcan, we would have had a Binary vs. Vulcan and that would have been superb.

This is so true. As it is, KSD's current take seems to be making her the cosmic spinster cat lady.

[Rochedalaix]

This is so true. As it is, KSD's current take seems to be making her the cosmic spinster cat lady.

Yeah and I don't like it, but I do like seeing Carol as a leader instead of a government ass kisser. While I hate it when characters get fridged at this time I am secretly hoping while Captain Marvel is messing around in space, Kat becomes a mutant and gets killed off panel by some mutant hate group, and than Carol finds out about it when she gets back from space imo, that is probably the only way Carol will finally get it through her head what she really should be fighting for.