Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) Appreciation - "Higher, Further, Faster, More!"

[ed2962]

My point exactly. It seems to me people just want to jerk off to her than actually like her as a character and her current look is suddenly a major turn off.

Really it's some people have a "culture wars" agenda they want to push and they're using Carol as an example/excuse/whatever...I guarantee you if Carol wasn't drawn with her current haircut, no one would be going on about how she's "masculine" and "everything wrong with feminism" and "Marvel shoving SJW politics that nobody wants down my throat."

[MarvelFan91]

They'll still complain about Carol being Captain Marvel. Comic book morons as they, have no idea what they want.

[VirusChan]

I get what you're trying to say, VirusChan, but you're using an incredibly skewed example to say it.

Yes, she definitely looks 'angry' and 'destructive' in the Kris Anka picture because she's punching something. She does not look that way in the fan art because she's just floating around all serene-like which...isn't actually a thing Carol does? Ever? She's not a goddess, or a sorceress, or anything else that would communicate a sense of one-with-the-universe tranquility. She's a human missile, forever waiting for the next chance to explode. When she's flying, even just hovering, there should be a dynamism to her posture that suggests potential energy straining at its leashes. The only times she calms right down is when her friends ground her and she can afford to goof off.

The one-with-the-universe idea represents cosmic awareness, a major part of the Captain Marvel mythos, which Carol does have (at least in theory), so invoking that is fine. My main complaint is the trend with Carol to have her be more angry, more aggressive, and how that is portrayed. If the Kris Anka art was the exception I wouldn’t mind it as much, but it isn’t. Too many times of recent I have seen Carol destroy without a care, show angry without restrained and that isn’t Carol.

If you are going to have Carol be Captain Marvel then there needs to be an understanding of the themes that come with it. The rejection of war, of death and how Carol plays into those themes as the bearer of Mar-Vell’s legacy. Mar-Vell was only able to find peace in death, let Carol find peace in life.

[Fokken]

My point exactly. It seems to me people just want to jerk off to her than actually like her as a character and her current look is suddenly a major turn off.

We always come back to this don't we?
Ha ha ha.

Carol's LOOK. Its intriguing to me, how incredibly divisive this topic is. It often seems even more controversial than the mantle/title claim. And if I may join/further (possibly to the chagrin of my fellow posters -- sorry) the discussion, I'd like to weigh in on the debate of aesthetic importance/appeal.
Okay. So. Background on me, to add context(?) to my vantage point: I am 36 year old gay white male with a sequential illustration background. For what its worth.
Now then--
Carol, as the former Ms.Marvel: Didn't appeal to me. Her look felt very haphazardly slung together. The domino mask, bathing suit, glove/boot, and the SASH made zero sense to me. Is it dynamic? Sure. But I find that dynamism is largely afforded by the color scheme, but again that's just me. The lightning bolt, though striking, didn't make sense to the character, imho. And of course, the thigh/shoulder exposure seemed silly as well, regardless of how invulnerable your powers make you. So yeah. As an artist, I'm traditionally drawn(haha) to characters by their visual. And comics are a visual medium, so that makes a lot of sense that folks feel very strongly about imagery (though that mileage/meaning may vary). That being said, when McKelvie redesigned Carol -- I took notice. That design is what drew (again, haha) me to follow/purchase Kelly Sue's series. I still didn't understand the sash component beyond it being a throwback to her original outfit, and hence following her through the years, but I digress.

I MISS her hair/helmet combo. It was a unique visual that set her apart from her fellow female heroes and added to her cosmic ties (the helmet). I miss it so much.
Additionally, I appreciate the functionality of the helmet in that it served a purpose while also affording her "hair management". The helmet granted the kinetic energy visual that long hair provides the artist and by extension, the viewer, while keeping it CONTROLLED. Unfortunately, artistic licensing of subsequent artist modifications lost that functionality in favor of classic sweeping manes of hair. I know that Kris Anka spoke at length (haha) about the decision to trim her tresses, arguing both "MILITARY!" and "SENSIBLE!" and I'm not arguing a woman's right to dramatically alter her look, but it felt like an unnecessary shift given how long she's gone WITH long locks and did so without conflict to her heroing. (How STORM manages to do much of anything with both a cape AND her miles of platinum hair is beyond me, but again: kinetic energy visual) And for her to retain the sash? The ankle length sash??? It just seems so very WTF to keep THAT on your person, and IT does not conflict with the "MILITARY!" and "SENSIBLE!" arguments made about her hair? Naw gurl. That dog don't hunt.

I'm an Anka fan through and through, and I really dig the little tweeks he made -- with the staunch exceptions of: Helmet/hair loss and the retaining of the sash.

And on the topic of the character lately? Oh, Gurl needs HALP!



<sigh> Swoon.

[Ascended]

We always come back to this don't we?
Ha ha ha.

Carol's LOOK. Its intriguing to me, how incredibly divisive this topic is. It often seems even more controversial than the mantle/title claim. And if I may join/further (possibly to the chagrin of my fellow posters -- sorry) the discussion, I'd like to weigh in on the debate of aesthetic importance/appeal.
Okay. So. Background on me, to add context(?) to my vantage point: I am 36 year old gay white male with a sequential illustration background. For what its worth.
Now then--

>quote cut down to save space<

Excellent points, and I largely agree with you about all of it except the sash. I liked it, even if it made little sense. It added to the sense of kinetic movement and energy, along with her long hair.

And I'm also a 36 year old white dude with a background in art. So we likely look at this from a very similar standpoint.

The thing that really struck me about the 2012 design is how timeless and fitting it was. You could take that costume and drop it into 1940 and it would fit. With a couple minor tweaks, it'd fit in the 60's. Or the 80's. Or today. It has a classic element to it that very, very few designs manage. It's up there with designs like Superman's, Batman's, and Spider-Man's; timeless. Carol's suit has that same sensibility. Sure, Anka made a few tweaks. Someone else down the line will make a few different ones. But everything will revolve around the design from 2012 and still be instantly recognizable as "Carol goddamn Danvers" and that's really hard to pull off. For anyone who doesn't have a background in art, I can't express just how hard it is to create a design that is truly timeless and versatile. Even Wonder Woman has seen some pretty sweeping changes to her costume over the years that extend beyond just the small adjustments of the day.

[Wiccan]

We always come back to this don't we?
Ha ha ha.

Carol's LOOK. Its intriguing to me, how incredibly divisive this topic is. It often seems even more controversial than the mantle/title claim. And if I may join/further (possibly to the chagrin of my fellow posters -- sorry) the discussion, I'd like to weigh in on the debate of aesthetic importance/appeal.
Okay. So. Background on me, to add context(?) to my vantage point: I am 36 year old gay white male with a sequential illustration background. For what its worth.
Now then--
Carol, as the former Ms.Marvel: Didn't appeal to me. Her look felt very haphazardly slung together. The domino mask, bathing suit, glove/boot, and the SASH made zero sense to me. Is it dynamic? Sure. But I find that dynamism is largely afforded by the color scheme, but again that's just me. The lightning bolt, though striking, didn't make sense to the character, imho. And of course, the thigh/shoulder exposure seemed silly as well, regardless of how invulnerable your powers make you. So yeah. As an artist, I'm traditionally drawn(haha) to characters by their visual. And comics are a visual medium, so that makes a lot of sense that folks feel very strongly about imagery (though that mileage/meaning may vary). That being said, when McKelvie redesigned Carol -- I took notice. That design is what drew (again, haha) me to follow/purchase Kelly Sue's series. I still didn't understand the sash component beyond it being a throwback to her original outfit, and hence following her through the years, but I digress.

I MISS her hair/helmet combo. It was a unique visual that set her apart from her fellow female heroes and added to her cosmic ties (the helmet). I miss it so much.
Additionally, I appreciate the functionality of the helmet in that it served a purpose while also affording her "hair management". The helmet granted the kinetic energy visual that long hair provides the artist and by extension, the viewer, while keeping it CONTROLLED. Unfortunately, artistic licensing of subsequent artist modifications lost that functionality in favor of classic sweeping manes of hair. I know that Kris Anka spoke at length (haha) about the decision to trim her tresses, arguing both "MILITARY!" and "SENSIBLE!" and I'm not arguing a woman's right to dramatically alter her look, but it felt like an unnecessary shift given how long she's gone WITH long locks and did so without conflict to her heroing. (How STORM manages to do much of anything with both a cape AND her miles of platinum hair is beyond me, but again: kinetic energy visual) And for her to retain the sash? The ankle length sash??? It just seems so very WTF to keep THAT on your person, and IT does not conflict with the "MILITARY!" and "SENSIBLE!" arguments made about her hair? Naw gurl. That dog don't hunt.

I'm an Anka fan through and through, and I really dig the little tweeks he made -- with the staunch exceptions of: Helmet/hair loss and the retaining of the sash.

And on the topic of the character lately? Oh, Gurl needs HALP!



<sigh> Swoon.

I agree about most of this but your hatred for the sash is the most absurd thing I've read here. Frontier, where are u now?

[Fokken]

Sorry gang.
Its less that I hate the sash and more that I can't rationalize the sensibility of LONG SASH vs LONG HAIR -- Only ONE can remain. <cue Law and Order theme sound>

If its a One or the Other situation, I'm team HAIR. <shrug>

[responsarbre]

Did nobody pick up McCann's Infinity Countdown one-shot today? I really enjoyed it. Not much happened, but I think it was the kind of self-reflective story that we've needed for Carol for a couple years now.

[Wiccan]

Did nobody pick up McCann's Infinity Countdown one-shot today? I really enjoyed it. Not much happened, but I think it was the kind of self-reflective story that we've needed for Carol for a couple years now.

Haven't read it yet. But I saw some people saying it was good, so I'll do soon.

[Mike_Murdock]

There's an interview with Margaret Stohl about Life of Captain Marvel

The details about the story sound interesting. I expected this to be a retelling and not just a look into her past. I also didn't expect there to be present day moments. That being said, that was a boring interview and I kind of got annoyed that every answer started with "yes."

[Wiccan]

There's an interview with Margaret Stohl about Life of Captain Marvel

The details about the story sound interesting. I expected this to be a retelling and not just a look into her past. I also didn't expect there to be present day moments. That being said, that was a boring interview and I kind of got annoyed that every answer started with "yes."

Tbh I think that was the interviewers "fault". Like, he kind of offers an answer already, for her to confirm/deny or choose between two. Like the one that's pretty much "Is this one of those stories that retcon the origins or is just a look at her past through a new perspective keeping what was there before?"...

It did actually made me more excited for the book anyway. And I love the art.

[responsarbre]

There's an interview with Margaret Stohl about Life of Captain Marvel

The details about the story sound interesting. I expected this to be a retelling and not just a look into her past. I also didn't expect there to be present day moments. That being said, that was a boring interview and I kind of got annoyed that every answer started with "yes."

I'm kind of nervous about this now, to be perfectly honest. This is the exact same approach they took to Hawkeye and Black Widow before they showed up in the movies. Neither Hawkeye: Blindspot nor Black Widow: Deadly Origin were particularly strong minis, IMO. I don't think the format lends itself to very clear storytelling, because it's hard to make a compelling present-day story that gets interrupted for a series of flashbacks tracing a character's life in chronological order. Moreover, the flashbacks themselves are so abridged and abrupt and that it can be hard to tell what they're supposed to be about. Even the hints that Stohl is giving about the villain sound suspiciously close to what McCann and Cornell did with Hawkeye and Black Widow.

I'll stay optimistic that Stohl can make the format work, but I sort of wish they had gone with a straight origin approach like Rise of the Black Panther or the Season One GNs.

[Mike_Murdock]

Tbh I think that was the interviewers "fault". Like, he kind of offers an answer already, for her to confirm/deny or choose between two. Like the one that's pretty much "Is this one of those stories that retcon the origins or is just a look at her past through a new perspective keeping what was there before?"...

It did actually made me more excited for the book anyway. And I love the art.

I wasn't blaming her for the awkward nature of the interview, just pointing out that it was an awkward interview.

[Digifiend]

Did nobody pick up McCann's Infinity Countdown one-shot today? I really enjoyed it. Not much happened, but I think it was the kind of self-reflective story that we've needed for Carol for a couple years now.

One thing to note - there's a reference to House of M. She says that's what made her confident enough to become Captain Marvel. But she actually took up the mantle at the start of Kelly Sue DeConnick's run, not Brian Reed's, where she was still Ms. Marvel. Are they trying to retcon that she's been the Captain longer than she actually has?

[ed2962]

There's an interview with Margaret Stohl about Life of Captain Marvel

The details about the story sound interesting. I expected this to be a retelling and not just a look into her past. I also didn't expect there to be present day moments. That being said, that was a boring interview and I kind of got annoyed that every answer started with "yes."

I like the art. LOL at Stark with a MC5 T-shirt.