Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) Appreciation - "Higher, Further, Faster, More!"

[InformationGeek]

Ooooooh. Someone has a different take on this issue that is interesting.

Ok, this issue was mostly bland and trite, but what was really bad, what really made me angry, was the whole heap of bullshit and retcons surrounding Carol’s family. Ever since she got promoted to Captain Marvel, writer after writer tried their hardest to give her a supporting cast, all seemingly oblivious to the fact that she had a mother and a brother just hanging in limbo that could easily be the source of any number of stories. I’ve been waiting since 2008, ten fucking years, to see Carol reunite with her family, and now I got monkey pawned I guess.

Let’s start with her dad. Let me tell you something about Joseph Danvers: he was an *******, a dick, a stubborn fool, but you know, he was also a brave man. When Claremont’s introduces him the first time, we see him risk his own life to save the one of another man, and he stands up to crooked criminals that want to run him out of business. He was pigheaded, yes, but he was also a good person deep down, a hardworker who simply didn’t know how to deal with his daughter, and part of the charm was seeing Carol both grow out of her animosity with him and simultaneously realize she got a lot of her temper from him, all in the span of a couple of issues, because Claremont is what we call in these circles “a good writer”, and made a character that had a little bit of texture to him.

Then Brian Reed’s came along and made him an alcoholic. Ms. Marvel v2 #31. I cut Reed’s a lot of slack, but that was frankly unnecessary. Still, ok, it tied to Carol’s harder, and he portrayed as a self-destructing kind of alcoholic rather than actively malicious with everybody, and it was after his beloved eldest’s death, so you could understand he was completely broken…

But here comes Margaret Stohl people, and according to her, Joseph Danvers was always an unabashed abuser who screwed up his children’s childhood, and Carol can’t even bring herself to THINK about him without going in a berserker rage and suffer a cardiac arrest! Why do this? What’s the point? Not only it is clichéd as hell, overused to the point of meaninglessness, it adds nothing to Carol’s character, except more empty soap opera angst. She already has countless other sources of drama and pain in her past, is an abusive dad really necessary? And God, what the **** is up with Marvel and dads?! They pulled the same **** with Joseph Rogers (how many joseph are there?) turning a problem with the bottle mentioned in passing into a full blown stereotypical irish knuckle fest. Can’t wait for the day Uncle Ben gets it, that’ll be fun.

The fact that Carol has been brain wiped not once but twice, is completely disregarded, which is absurd, because it’s the biggest and most profound source of emotional turmoil she has! When Brian Reed wrote the story revolving around it, it was heartbreaking! Carol’s loss of memory, having her show up at her family house, realizing she doesn’t know these people, that she should feel anger, and love, and rage, and sadness, but nothing comes up, because she has nothing left.

In TLofCM, this feeling of alienation is never brought up, it’s only ever barely hinted at. Her mindwipe isn’t mentioned, just tangentially referred to, and it’s treated like the reason Carol never shows up to her old home is that the memories of her dad are too painful. Great job guys, you took Carol’s very specific and interesting source of pain and replaced it with daddy’s issues. Plus, as I mentioned, IRL it’s been ten years since Carol met her family. In canon at least a couple must’ve passed, yet this separation is barely mentioned. Her mother welcomes her to their summer home with the warmth you’d expect if they met like once a week or once a month, where she should’ve gone “Where the **** have you been?!”. Joe Jr is the only one that brings it up, and it still feels way too casual.

Now, let’s finally speak about Carol. I really hope I won’t sound like an arrogant prick, but reading earlier issues of Margaret Stohl’s run, I once tweeted “this is something I would write if I lacked any self-awareness”. Nothing is more true than in this issue, where Carol acts like and unhinged psychopath in the most worrying of ways. We see her snap and downright punch her FATHER’S TOMBSTONE into pieces. I mean, I was shocked! What the ****?! Who does this? How is she going to explain this to her mother?! To her brother?! How much of a mental trainwreck do you have to be to go this far? Hating your dad is one thing, desecrating a cemetery is another one entirely! And at the beginning of the issue she brutalizes Moonstone, with the Avengers just idly standing by the side quipping about it… GUYS THIS IS NO LAUGHING MATTER, Carol is suffering another breakdown. Also no laughing matter is what happened to Carol’s brother, but the tone this book has is way too carefree and light to properly deal with it. Every single dialogue Carol has is coated with some matter of snappy comeback, or clever line. It creates an ironic distance that doesn’t allow the drama to unfold.

[Fokken]

NOT complaining about it -- my commentary stems from ENVY -- speaking as someone who is growing their hair out at a not-nearly-fast-enough-pace --- but DAAAAYUM she got some serious LENGTH in the span of 9 months!!!

Again, I'm into it -- but I'm also jealous AF.

My primary take away from this issue: the application of Claremontian level phonetic accent


Truthfully, regarding the story and the implied direction, I'm confused about what to expect.

[Digifiend]

This would have to take place nine months after Avengers. Not completely crazy, they just have to catch up. More accurately, it would have to be nine months after She-Hulk gets cured of her current issues or (if my theory about Avengers is right) nine months after some point in the past between the end of Tamaki's run on She-Hulk and the start of Aaron's run on Avengers.

Several members of Aaron's team appear at the start of the issue, so it's definitely after Avengers #8.

[Skedatz]

Ooooooh. Someone has a different take on this issue that is interesting.

An interpretation indeed. Though I don't agree with their assertion that Joe Danvers was an unabashed abuser or something. Hit his kids when he got mad at them isn't the same as what the observation is implying, which is he is always laying hands on kids. I mean, there might be a scene in the next issue where Joe comes home everyday and just straps down on his kids, but until then he's just an over the top disciplinarian which wasn't outside of what his character could've been. Nor does it imply that every time she thinks about her dad does she fly into a rage, since we're told its happening on a fairly specific day and maybe celebrating her dad is pretty hard for her. As a character who commonly has impulse issues, this isn't necessarily a conflict of character. People sometimes operate fine all year long until they're basically asked to make a conflicting opinion and then break. It's not like fighting brings on only memories of her father, but aggression mixed with a rough day mixed with expectation? Probably something she thinks about semi-often this time of year. That's why people commit suicide more often around family oriented holidays and new accounts for spousal cheating websites increase after Mother's Day. It's just how emotions work. It also implies that Joe Danvers is either one thing or another and just really isn't a more complicated sometimes angry sometimes not person. He's either beating kids or he's not existing. (I decided to read the article, the complaint was he went from dopey to abusive without an idea of in between).

I don't necessarily believe every dramatic Carol story should revolve around her brainwashing. Not every trauma should revolve around it, either. There's more than enough room in life to have more than one form of trauma. Imagine if it was just straight up Iron Man's alcoholism, or his bad dad, or having his company taken from him, or getting Immortus'd, or being shot by a crazy girlfriend? Should Iron Man's entire trauma revolve around only one of those concepts? Or would one feed into the other? Like Carol just can't be a person. One big trauma or another, but not both. Though the implication is she's so crazed over her father her life was completely shaped by it rather than contributed by it and might have a big impact on her as a person. And not just resentful that her father was so rough with her and her siblings and never quite let that go. As Carol isn't someone who regularly lets things go, this isn't necessarily outside of the realm of her personality.

The mom comment was sorta weird. I guess the mom should always be mad and not be a person who might just be okay with seeing her daughter and not try to start a fight with her after not seeing her for a long time. And there was nothing casual about the confrontation, as the mom clearly has shown throughout this single issue she prefers avoiding conflicts. With the dad, with the daughter, and finally when JJ pops off as Carol and the mom just boots out.
There's even a comment about how this has always sort of been the mom's trait because nobody else has really done anything with her. So I'm not sure where this comes from. I dunno, maybe yelling at each other is a casual family affair for the reviewer.

The last bit entirely about Carol, self-awareness, psychopath, and the pretty bizarre overreaction (at least I saw it as an overreaction)? Sort of off. In order, it isn't lacking in self-awareness since it deals with characters who are avoiding and hiding (regret, loyalty, perception, and expectation) what they really feel like a family sometimes will do (and people in general) and that extends directly into the dialogue, punching a tombstone in a fit of rage (or really destroying random stuff) is right up a superhero's alley and really isn't the end of the world for anybody and especially so since Tony will probably just replace it, and the Avengers group up on Carol to stop her in her rampage. They try to reason with her, then when it becomes obvious talking doesn't work they just stop her.

Now if their complaint was the story didn't really spell it out for them and we had to do some wheelwork to make the story operate, I guess I can sort of understand. But not to the extent of this.

[kcekada]

Glad to see an improvement in art, but I'm skeptical based on some of the comment above.

[Michael Watkins]

I wonder how much of this will be in the movie

[mikeb]

About what happened to Joe Jr. Him having an accident and going over a bridge... the traumatic brain injury...the "you'd give anything to have gone after him, and acted like the hero you're supposed to be." Is Margaret Stohl echoing what Claremont had happened to Carol in San Francisco decades ago?

[Wiccan]

Yeah, I kind of get that impression as well. It's a shame, too. I like this look on her. It makes her look more like Brie Larson and I think with the movie less than a year away, it's important to create that synergy. Maybe as the release of the Captain Marvel movie approaches, we'll see her hair grow again. But I have a feeling this look won't go beyond this mini, which makes it that much more special.

No need to worry you two. She's already showing up with the longer hair on previews for Infinity Wars #1.
https://twitter.com/CaptMarvelNews/s...54157345673216

[Digifiend]

Wait, so there's nine months between Carol acquiring that Infinity Reality Stone and Infinity Wars taking place? I would've thought Wars would have to take place BEFORE Life Of.

[Wiccan]

Wait, so there's nine months between Carol acquiring that Infinity Reality Stone and Infinity Wars taking place? I would've thought Wars would have to take place BEFORE Life Of.

Marvel timelines making sense is too much to ask for.

[Mike_Murdock]

Several members of Aaron's team appear at the start of the issue, so it's definitely after Avengers #8.

Woops. I was thinking about how they came together in the first issue.

[Colossus1980]

Is this the first issue that has implied Carol's dad was physically abusive? I vaguely recollect where it's implied that he was dismissive of Carol's accomplishments.

[Mike_Murdock]

Physically abusive? Yes, to my knowledge. However, Brian Reid's run suggested he was psychologically abusive - far more so than the pushing the line in disciplining your kids that's suggested here.

[mikeb]

I'm just wondering...with all of Carol's connections to the superhero community, why didn't she reach out to a psychic to evaluate Joe Jr's condition? There are many available: Jean Grey, Rachel Summers, Emma Frost (well after the ugly reception Carol got from Emma in Civil war I, she may be reluctant to ask her.) even Quinlin Quire. If it wasn't for Jessica Drew reaching out for help for Carol all those years ago, Carol would still be a vegetable.

[CraigTheCylon]

I'm just wondering...with all of Carol's connections to the superhero community, why didn't she reach out to a psychic to evaluate Joe Jr's condition? There are many available: Jean Grey, Rachel Summers, Emma Frost (well after the ugly reception Carol got from Emma in Civil war I, she may be reluctant to ask her.) even Quinlin Quire. If it wasn't for Jessica Drew reaching out for help for Carol all those years ago, Carol would still be a vegetable.

Apples and oranges, mostly. Carol had her mind wiped by distinctly unnatural, superhuman means; Joe Jr. has comparatively, tragically normal brain damage. And apart from the fact that she's not that friendly with any telepaths, I doubt it would work anyway - I mean, Cyclops lived in a mansion full of psychics for his entire adult life and nobody ever fixed the broken part of his brain that makes his powers malfunction.*

There's also an issue of work-life balance: most supers make a conscious effort to keep their personal life and the people in it separate from all the spandex nonsense. Not a golden rule but it's common enough that I can buy it applying with Carol. If Joe Jr. had taken head shrapnel from an exploding robot in an OTT punch-up, sure, send him to Avengers Mansion/Tower/Mountain/Village/wherever and let the big brains fix him. But he got broken by normal life, and so...those are the rules.



* - Yes, smartypants, I realize the actual reason he never got fixed was it's more dramatic to leave him as-is. Guess what? Same is true for Joe here.