.........don't see any point to Mad Scientist Lex.....

[Lord of Narrative]

To me, the mad scientist version of Lex Luthor has almost no value in the modern day comics, as the Post-Crisis version of the character has almost hilariously outshined him in every way. A lame, cliche mad scientist just doesn't seem interesting or intimidating in the slightest, and those traits are needed for an arch foe, let alone when it's someone like Lex against someone like Superman. Tycoon Lex's money allows him to have others build things for him, thus still allowing him to "Create" things to fight Superman. However, by doing it this way, it's not nearly as cliche and trite as the old days, which was basically "Taste my newest death ray, Suepahman!!! Hahahaha!" As trite as an evil business man might seem, that is a FAR more interesting role for Luthor considering that corrupt corporate tycoons making shady business deals that inadvertently shape the Earth is actually something relevant. The polymath Luthor was only created to placate Silver Age fanboys, and any interesting mad scientist storyline (eugenics, gene splicing) done to its fullest potential, and not just some comic book trope storyline, would be inappropriate for Luthor's character. Any and all mad scientist stories should just be used for a new version of Ultra Humanite.

[Superlad93]

Ok so, I don't see why the two aspects of Lex have to be mutually exclusive? I mean can he not be a brilliant polymath who used his great intellect to grown a whole business empire starting from nothing but the contents of his wallet when he was 17? Why can't one honor and advance both aspects of the character together since they don't clash? He uses his great intellect along with his killer business instinct to run his business and think up ways to mess with/humiliate/destroy Superman.





Simply making him just a evil business guy makes for a far less compelling character I think. It doesn't give off the same sense of loss as the worlds greatest mind not being able to see past it's own ego, envy, and small mindedness. By all count Superman and him should be the best of friends. And together they could change the world for the better. But Lex can't see that. Lex can't see that he's not achieving greatness but letting it slip away every time he waste his time with death traps and business plans to stunt societal growth.

I don't feel that same sense of loss coming from a, in my opinion, Kingpin knockoff with nothing backing his pathos other than being the 1% we dislike so much. Just feels paper thin to give just that to Superman's greatest foe.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

To me, the mad scientist version of Lex Luthor has almost no value in the modern day comics, as the Post-Crisis version of the character has almost hilariously outshined him in every way. A lame, cliche mad scientist just doesn't seem interesting or intimidating in the slightest, and those traits are needed for an arch foe, let alone when it's someone like Lex against someone like Superman. Tycoon Lex's money allows him to have others build things for him, thus still allowing him to "Create" things to fight Superman. However, by doing it this way, it's not nearly as cliche and trite as the old days, which was basically "Taste my newest death ray, Suepahman!!! Hahahaha!" As trite as an evil business man might seem, that is a FAR more interesting role for Luthor considering that corrupt corporate tycoons making shady business deals that inadvertently shape the Earth is actually something relevant.

Have you read ANY Luthor stories from that era? At all? Because that's not even an exaggerated version of how he acted in a single one of them. And Luthor as businessman, aside from as pointed out just being a slimmer Kingpin, is not a guy that works for Superman on a regular basis. For a street-level, crime comic hero like Daredevil that sort of villain works to underscore how great the challenges he faces are; Superman's Ultimate Enemy being a petty C.E.O. is unimaginably emasculating, and makes Superman look like a completely useless schmuck every single time the super-brilliant guy who can see electrons orbiting atoms and is an award-winning investigative reporter to boot fails to catch Lex's hand in the cookie jar. It reduces Lex immeasurably too: a guy so smart he can challenge a god, and a character springing from that idea that's been one of the most complicated in comics, turned into a guy who's rich trying to protect his assets and also feels kind of jealous. It's terrible to everyone involved.

The polymath Luthor was only created to placate Silver Age fanboys, and any interesting mad scientist storyline (eugenics, gene splicing) done to its fullest potential, and not just some comic book trope storyline, would be inappropriate for Luthor's character. Any and all mad scientist stories should just be used for a new version of Ultra Humanite.

What? Says who? What even subjective evidence is there for that, much less anything in the character's history? You're seriously saying the guy who created Bizarro doesn't work for eugenics or gene splicing, never mind narrowing down hard social sci-fi as the only 'interesting' take on that genre? And super-genius Lex was the original version of the character until Byrne and Wolfman stuck what amounted to a new character altogether into his skin in the 80s. Not saying tycoon Lex has nothing to offer--STAS did a brilliant job with it--but the only version of Lex to have that as his main deal was Byrne's, and he was having other aspects folded back in by the 90s.

[Agent Z]

Have you read ANY Luthor stories from that era? At all? Because that's not even an exaggerated version of how he acted in a single one of them. And Luthor as businessman, aside from as pointed out just being a slimmer Kingpin, is not a guy that works for Superman on a regular basis. For a street-level, crime comic hero like Daredevil that sort of villain works to underscore how great the challenges he faces are; Superman's Ultimate Enemy being a petty C.E.O. is unimaginably emasculating, and makes Superman look like a completely useless schmuck every single time the super-brilliant guy who can see electrons orbiting atoms and is an award-winning investigative reporter to boot fails to catch Lex's hand in the cookie jar. It reduces Lex immeasurably too: a guy so smart he can challenge a god, and a character springing from that idea that's been one of the most complicated in comics, turned into a guy who's rich trying to protect his assets and also feels kind of jealous. It's terrible to everyone involved.



What? Says who? What even subjective evidence is there for that, much less anything in the character's history? You're seriously saying the guy who created Bizarro doesn't work for eugenics or gene splicing, never mind narrowing down hard social sci-fi as the only 'interesting' take on that genre? And super-genius Lex was the original version of the character until Byrne and Wolfman stuck what amounted to a new character altogether into his skin in the 80s. Not saying tycoon Lex has nothing to offer--STAS did a brilliant job with it--but the only version of Lex to have that as his main deal was Byrne's, and he was having other aspects folded back in by the 90s.

I think mad scientist Luthor has his own share of problems as well. For instance, how does he fund all his projects and how does he evade prison when he's picking fights with Superman in broad daylight while wearing large, city-wrecking armor? Why does he need to challenge Superman when he can just get rich selling anything he builds. Cut Lex Luthor A Check is a trope for a reason. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...exLuthorACheck. With the businessman Lex, you ca use him as a an example of how corrupt businessmen get away with crimes in real life. But its even more sinister because guys like him are everywhere and can never truly be beaten. If by some miracle Superman were to permanently do away with Luthor it wouldn't stop similar criminals. And being a businessman and CEO takes a great deal of smarts. I can even see Luthor using someone like his Silver Age iteration to take the fall for his crimes.

Personally, I think a version of Luthor that combines both the characteristics of both like Superlad said.

[iblogalot]

Where are those pages from?

[Deniz Camp]

The digital Adv. of Superman run; this was, I believe, the Abnett penned issue.

[iblogalot]

I'll have to look that up, looks interesting.

[Jim Kelly]

Where does the Mad part come from? I know the first Fleisher Superman cartoon was called The Mad Scientist, but it didn't feature Luthor.

Luthor has been played as an evil genius. His genius manifests itself in many ways. In the first Luthor story, he used his influence as a kind of Rasputin, the power behind the crown, to make war in Europe. He went on to influence other powerful heads of state and leaders of business. When he got amped up on the Powestone he was in a frenzy--but that was owing to the energy from the Powerstone. Through the rest of the '40s and '50s, Luthor was mainly a crime boss in a suit, who tended to use science to help him defeat Superman (pretty much the Gene Hackman Luthor). In the '60s, Luthor's genius for invention was played up and he became the saviour of a world. In the '70s, he was a costumed crook on the level of Reverse-Flash or Sinestro.

Yes, he hates Superman. But is that madness?

[Lord of Narrative]

Ok so, I don't see why the two aspects of Lex have to be mutually exclusive? I mean can he not be a brilliant polymath who used his great intellect to grown a whole business empire starting from nothing but the contents of his wallet when he was 17? Why can't one honor and advance both aspects of the character together since they don't clash? He uses his great intellect along with his killer business instinct to run his business and think up ways to mess with/humiliate/destroy Superman.





Simply making him just a evil business guy makes for a far less compelling character I think. It doesn't give off the same sense of loss as the worlds greatest mind not being able to see past it's own ego, envy, and small mindedness. By all count Superman and him should be the best of friends. And together they could change the world for the better. But Lex can't see that. Lex can't see that he's not achieving greatness but letting it slip away every time he waste his time with death traps and business plans to stunt societal growth.

I don't feel that same sense of loss coming from a, in my opinion, Kingpin knockoff with nothing backing his pathos other than being the 1% we dislike so much. Just feels paper thin to give just that to Superman's greatest foe.

This is what I'm speaking against! His whole "Mehehehe! I keel u now, Supahman!" characterization is just so trite!

[Cypher]

"These are my strong opinions"
~Lord of Narrative


You dont like a petty, bald headed genius, who happens to be ABLE to smash down the strongest guy EVER in the DC not only by outsmarting him, but kicking his ass once in a while with his inventions and armor? Wow OP, I feel bad for you. He used to be just a mad scientist, then he got a little Slimmer, meaner, got some armor and gear and started handing it to The Man of Steel.

Thats pretty badass. Sure, King Pin Lex has some moments, but that gets rather boring and old. Mad Scientist Lex who gets up close and personal is where its at.



Clearly Mr. Narrative has never read much of the stories regarding Lex this period. Maybe too much Robot Chicken specials.

[llozymandias]

Jerry Siegel's Luthor was the best version of the character. He is a man so brilliant he can do just about anything. Even things others consider to be impossible. Acquiring vast wealth is no challenge for Lex. For most of Lex's history, his true goal is conquest. World conquest was to Lex merely phase one in conquering the universe/multiverse.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

This is what I'm speaking against! His whole "Mehehehe! I keel u now, Supahman!" characterization is just so trite!

I would be absolutely fascinated to hear about any stories where Lex acted even remotely like that in the Silver/Bronze Age, especially under the likes of Siegel, Maggin, Bates or Hamilton.

[Jim Kelly]

Like other classic Superman villains, Luthor was something of a con artist.

One of his frequent cons in the ’40s, ‘50s and ’60s was to masquerade as someone else and hoax Superman into doing something that would undermine the Man of Steel. But Superman would figure out the hoax and turn the tables, hoaxing Luthor. Another con would have Luthor duping people into thinking he was a good guy, so they would unwittingly do his dirty work.

I suppose those aspects of Luthor survived into the ’90s Luthor. He did dupe people into doing his dirty work and he did masquerade as someone else.

[kingaliencracker]

I like the modern, "jack of all trades" approach to the character. He can be a scientist AND a businessman, and I think it works depending on what story you're trying to tell.

I view Lex as the ultimate humanist void of any love or compassion beyond what the benefits are to him.

[Powerboy]

To me, the mad scientist version of Lex Luthor has almost no value in the modern day comics...

While I agree with Superlad that Businessman Luthor and Mad scientist Luthor don't have to be mutually exclusive and while I also liked Businessman Luthor in the early days, Businessman Luthor actually wore thin for me quicker than Mad Scientist Luthor did.

True there may be a feeling with MSL of, "Oh, you beat me yet again, Superman, but I'll escape and get you next time." But there's also a feeling of Superman ever winning. With BSL, he gets one up on Superman and gets away with it. Okay, fine. Then he does it again and gets away with it. Can't prove anything. Luthor: "Ha ha. I win yet again." Then he does it again and again and again and again and again and...

After a while, you have the same problem you had with MS Luthor except now the problem is with Superman. It's essentially Superman shaking his fist at Businessman Luthor and going, "Ooooh, you got away with it yet again. But, so help me, I'll get you next time, or the next, or maybe the next after that."

Given the choice, I'd rather see a hero who can win and a villain that can actually be beaten.