How the WW/Orion Moment should have ended..

[napolid]

I thought it was funny, also I don't like OP's response, sounds like bad fan fiction.

[evangelionofasgard]

What do you mean? "same level for us" ?!

If you do a google, you'll find that it's seen as a cure for male rapists, not being seen as rape.

Only times I'v heard it even being uttered as a "threat" is when someone happens to read about a rapist in the news paper.

We take the threat of It on the same level of personal and seriousness as any woman should take a rape threat is what I mean. Cus it does not matter how serious or realistic the threatener is the actions are too horrific to contemplate Risking him/Her Being Serious.

It's worse, would gladly take being raped repeatedly before castration. With rape at least a man can still in the future recover, make love and have children.

The reason you don't hear of it as a offhand unserious threat offen is Cus it's off limits as it should be Cus it's too horrible. You don't hear people making joke threats of burning babies alive do you?

[borntohula]

We take the threat of It on the same level of personal and seriousness as any woman should take a rape threat is what I mean. Cus it does not matter how serious or realistic the threatener is the actions are too horrific to contemplate Risking him/Her Being Serious.

It's worse, would gladly take being raped repeatedly before castration. With rape at least a man can still in the future recover, make love and have children.

The reason you don't hear of it as a offhand unserious threat offen is Cus it's off limits as it should be Cus it's too horrible. You don't hear people making joke threats of burning babies alive do you?

Thing is, (regardless form of it) sterilisation is not a common threat. And those I know who lost their "use" of their junk haven't been as deeply scared as those I know who fallen victims to sexual violence. FAR FROM. Nor have I heard or read such thing being a trauma comparable to rape.

And there's actually alot of jokes surrounding "castration". Ever watched Jackass and such? Kicking someone in the nuts seems like great fun according to those who made and watch the show. So it definitely doesn't seem off limits when it comes to jokes.

Point to the story (in the comic) is that Orion sways his junk around as if it was some gold chain. Diana then uses his strength (since she's always using someone's strength against themselves in this run.) against him. Perhaps she could'v used her lasso of truth for a similar effect (making him confess what'd happen if she ripped his cojones off), but she took the matter into her own hands. While not proper, I think it served it's point.

As said. IMO. I think we'd have a better world women would be more aware of this, and men aware of that.

[Dr. Poison]

Truth is a very intimidating weapon. The Lasso is a ridiculously powerful weapon when you stop to think about it. It's one of the things that make her who she is and is probably horribly frightening when put to the test. Batman's tactics are pale imitation of what the Lasso can do in WW hands. Her love, compassion and understanding temper the power she wields, but let's face it, the Lasso strips you of your control.

Considering how little she used the lasso in Azz's run to make people tell/realize the truth, I find it hard to believe that's what Heph meant.

[Silvanus]

Considering how little she used the lasso in Azz's run to make people tell/realize the truth, I find it hard to believe that's what Heph meant.

In that scene in 7, she mentions the lasso's power to compel truthfulness, and he says "your power is intimidation, and you blame the rope"--or something close to that. I think he meant that the power to compel the truth is within Diana herself, perhaps channeled through the lasso, and that it's based on her ability to instill fear--i.e., to intimidate. That last part seems weird, I would agree, but here's a positive spin: "Awe," in a certain sense, is a near synonym of intimidation. Heph was understandably annoyed, so he used the more negative word; but suppose he had said "Your power is awe." It would mean, I think, that anyone caught in the lasso feels something from Wonder Woman--her soul, or Truth itself, or the spirit of Wonder (another near synonym of awe)--which so fills them with awe that their defenses come down and they can't help but tell the truth. Azz never really developed the point and I'm betting it will be abandoned, but I wouldn't mind if the lasso were a channel for the wonder in her soul. The lasso as (at least partly) channel for a truth-eliciting power inherent in Wonder Woman wouldn't be an entirely new idea, of course--and it could be semi-consistent with ARGUS, in we saw that others can use the lasso, but their control over it depends on some personal quality (truthfulness? purity of soul? strength of purpose? wrist strength ? I forget.) of which Steve says WW has the most. If creators went with the above interpretation, they could say that anyone can awe others by revealing the wonder within (especially though the lasso) but Wonder Woman has more wonder to reveal.

[Darius]

Considering how little she used the lasso in Azz's run to make people tell/realize the truth, I find it hard to believe that's what Heph meant.

well since he specifically says "you blame the rope" it's pretty obvious what he meant. Just because Azzarello didn't show her use it in every panel doesn't mean he ignored the implications of the Lasso's powers. In fact this scene explores the idea that Diana doesn't really 100% understand the implications herself. Hephaestus is opening her eyes to the fact that what she thinks she does and what she's actually doing are two different things.

[Dr. Poison]

well since he specifically says "you blame the rope" it's pretty obvious what he meant. Just because Azzarello didn't show her use it in every panel doesn't mean he ignored the implications of the Lasso's powers. In fact this scene explores the idea that Diana doesn't really 100% understand the implications herself. Hephaestus is opening her eyes to the fact that what she thinks she does and what she's actually doing are two different things.

My issue here is that the important of the lasso seemed to be downplayed heavily in this run in favor of swords, spears, axes, and whatever else can come shooting out of Diana's modified bracelets. I also don't think the tiara was used as a weapon a single time in this run. It was just a stylish accessory.

[Darius]

My issue here is that the important of the lasso seemed to be downplayed heavily in this run in favor of swords, spears, axes, and whatever else can come shooting out of Diana's modified bracelets. I also don't think the tiara was used as a weapon a single time in this run. It was just a stylish accessory.

I don't disagree with that, I'd rather more Lasso and less everything else, but that's not the topic of discussion ... we're discussing the scene with Orion and how she behaved. Her behavior jives with "intimidation" being her weapon as Heph pointed out to her, her actions with Orion in this scene are inline with Heph's statements about her using intimidation and thinking it's "truth".

[wagthedog]

I don't disagree with that, I'd rather more Lasso and less everything else, but that's not the topic of discussion ... we're discussing the scene with Orion and how she behaved. Her behavior jives with "intimidation" being her weapon as Heph pointed out to her, her actions with Orion in this scene are inline with Heph's statements about her using intimidation and thinking it's "truth".

If people believe Azz nailed Diana's character, how does her 'intimidation' jive with that? I don't really remember her being an intimidating prescence or having intimidation as a character trait in her various incarnations.

[Dr. Hurt]

how i would have written Orion's immediate Response to this despicable moment.



ORION___still stitting on couch "diana.... if i may please ask you a question..."
DIANA___stops walking away remains with her back to him
ORION___"if... if a man wanted respect from a woman and no matter how horribly disrespectful she has already been to him, would you ever in a billion years consider him threatening to tear out her ovaries acceptable?"
ORION___jumps to his feet and walks towards diana "you know what Screw that, if a man threatened to do such to YOU, would you ever in a billion years give him what he wants?"
DIANA___facing orion with a blank stare
ORION___walks past her picking up his helmet "the universe despises hypocrisy, ive lived long enough to know that for a fact"
ORION___"mabye deep down i do want to respect your wishes, mabye i'm just a coward but you got your wish should we meet again i will genuinely try to refer to you by something other than your magnificent kickers, but..."
DIANA___glances at orion curiously
ORION___steps up on to astro harness "your suppose to be the greatest heroine who ever lived and you dead seriously threatened a man who would have gladly given his life for yours with the worst crime a being can commit against another over a pet name and a ass slap which would not have physically damaged a kitten much less a greek goddess right after you kiss him making him think all his hopes and dreams are coming true..." opens boom tube portal
DIANA___emotionally whispers "orion... wait i..."
ORION___"Darkseid himself could not be more cruel if he tried... You know i Imagine being 100% honest is a good way to earn a woman's respect so... i deeply regret to say that you have accomplished nothing but ensure that i will probably never hold any respect for you as long as i live, go back to your accursed island, your cruel sadistic sisters taught you too well, and this world deserves better than another hypocrite"
DIANA___speechless & still
ORION___boom tubes out like a boss



LET ME BE CLEAR, i do not side with orion in regards to the pet name or flirting (if she clearly didn't like it, BLOODY STOP DUDE), or especially the butt slap (she should have decked him right there)
but the kiss and hyper out of proportionate to crime threat is one of the most out of character, cruel, flat out evil moments i have ever read.

Too long, overdramatic and philosophical. A good writer needs to say much with little words and knows how to let his artist do half his work for him so that he doesnt need to use little thought boxes.

[Darius]

If people believe Azz nailed Diana's character, how does her 'intimidation' jive with that? I don't really remember her being an intimidating prescence or having intimidation as a character trait in her various incarnations.

How does her intimidating Orion by threatening castration jive with Hephaestus telling her she uses intimidation as a weapon? Sorry I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.

[evangelionofasgard]

Too long, overdramatic and philosophical.

yes cus a good about gods should not be philosophical

[Silvanus]

If people believe Azz nailed Diana's character, how does her 'intimidation' jive with that? I don't really remember her being an intimidating prescence or having intimidation as a character trait in her various incarnations.

I think Heph's comment is actually an indirect allusion (on Marston's part, not Heph's) to William Moulton Marston's other interrogation device--the polygraph machine (which, of course, he invented). Here's what one research analyst says about the polygraph:

With an error rate that defies calculation, polygraph tests are much more useful as tools of intimidation than as instruments of truth.

Similarly, Ezra Klein has an article on "polygraphs as a weapon of intimidation." And Reagan's secretary of state George Schultz referred to mandatory polygraph tests as “management through fear and intimidation.” "Intimidation" is actually a pretty common word in discussions of the polygraph; put the two words together in a Bing search and you get 71,000 hits.

[gingergypo]

If this is the most cruel, flat out evil thing you encountered in a comic book you must've been reading my little pony. At worst it was immature, as you'd expect from this very, painfully but also adorably immature Wonder Woman. I honestly don't know how this could shake the confidence of any man.

[gingergypo]

I think Heph's comment is actually an indirect allusion (on Marston's part, not Heph's) to William Moulton Marston's other interrogation device--the polygraph machine (which, of course, he invented). Here's what one research analyst says about the polygraph:



Similarly, Ezra Klein has an article on "polygraphs as a weapon of intimidation." And Reagan's secretary of state George Schultz referred to mandatory polygraph tests as “management through fear and intimidation.” "Intimidation" is actually a pretty common word in discussions of the polygraph; put the two words together in a Bing search and you get 71,000 hits.

well yeah what the polygraph detects is respiratory blood pressure fluctuation which happen, not necessarily when the subject lies but when the subject is stressed and fearful, either because they're lying or just because they are.