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  1. #76
    Full sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebkoX View Post
    I like the MCU most
    That's only because you haven't read enough comics. Captain America has starred in some of the very finest comics ever written.

    The films are a great little thing in thier own right, and certainly offer a higher turnaround for Disney.... But they're no substitute for the comics.
    Freedom is the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member DebkoX's Avatar
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    Hey, I've read plenty of Cap'n my friend.
    That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, the happy highways where I went and cannot come again.

  3. #78
    Full sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebkoX View Post
    Hey, I've read plenty of Cap'n my friend.
    But, clearly not enough.
    Freedom is the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  4. #79
    Extraordinary Member DebkoX's Avatar
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    Brubakers entire run? Remender. Other stuff? ;D;D
    That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, the happy highways where I went and cannot come again.

  5. #80
    Full sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebkoX View Post
    Brubakers entire run? Remender. Other stuff? ;D;D
    That accounts for less than 1/5 of his published life. So, yeah... Not enough. Hahaha.

    I'm just having at you, mate. The films are good. The two Captain America films are some of the very finest comic book movies I've ever seen.

    But, they are most certainly not preferable to, nor 'better' than the comics. That's an impossibility. There is so much awesome in Captain America's published adventures.
    Freedom is the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member DebkoX's Avatar
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    Understood, I just enjoy Steve more in the movies, but I guess they're often like that.
    That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, the happy highways where I went and cannot come again.

  7. #82
    Full sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebkoX View Post
    Understood, I just enjoy Steve more in the movies, but I guess they're often like that.
    Unfortunately, yes. That attitude is far too common these days. If it requires having to read actual words on a page, it can't possibly be as good as a movie that distills it, simplifies it all down, and then spoon feeds it to you, right?

    I'm not a fan of the whole idea, to be honest. It does little to support the books and characters I love. :/
    Freedom is the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member DebkoX's Avatar
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    I 'spose so, but I've noticed a lot more people have interest in comics now.
    That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, the happy highways where I went and cannot come again.

  9. #84
    Full sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebkoX View Post
    I 'spose so, but I've noticed a lot more people have interest in comics now.
    No, not at all. Comics sell less than ever these days. 100 000 is considered a 'massive' success. That's not even a shadow of what they used to be.

    A lot of people may be sporting 'Captain America' t-shirts these days... But those are the same people who assume Peggy Carter was actually Steve's first love and that Bucky and Steve were roughly the same age during the war.

    They're consumers riding a fad who will likely never set foot in a comic shoppe. /shrug.
    Freedom is the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member DebkoX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    No, not at all. Comics sell less than ever these days. 100 000 is considered a 'massive' success. That's not even a shadow of what they used to be.

    A lot of people may be sporting 'Captain America' t-shirts these days... But those are the same people who assume Peggy Carter was actually Steve's first love and that Bucky and Steve were roughly the same age during the war.

    They're consumers riding a fad who will likely never set foot in a comic shoppe. /shrug.
    Let them enjoy it, I say. Comics are meant to be entertaining, and whilst sales aren't jaw-dropping, the industries surviving now. If people love the movies, so be it.
    That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, the happy highways where I went and cannot come again.

  11. #86
    Full sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebkoX View Post
    Let them enjoy it, I say. Comics are meant to be entertaining, and whilst sales aren't jaw-dropping, the industries surviving now. If people love the movies, so be it.
    I never suggested otherwise. My only point here has been that the movies are not better than the material they're derived from. Implying that is the case - on a comic book forum, no less - is a little bit awry. Hahaha.

    The films are good, and entirely enjoyable. They are not 'better' than the comics they were sourced from though. That is a false statement sprouting from lack of knowledge. /shrug.
    Freedom is the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member Lady Warp Spasm's Avatar
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    I understand where you both are coming from and I've read a little bit more Cap (Brubaker, Gruenwald to name the two runs I really respect and love), but I think the films are as enjoyable as the comics. As much as I adore the Winter Soldier storyline, I do love the movie immensely for extrapolating what was so great about that run and actually using a far more insidious and awful villain (which was sole really good thing about Secret Warriors beyond Nick Fury striking back.)

    What the films get right is Captain America's character: the splendid moral core (the "good man") and the tried and true soldier. That's all I'd want and hope to be translated onto the big screen. Bucky was also translated perfectly.

    I've noticed a lot of people on tumblr asking for Cap and Bucky/WS comics to read. Yes, most people recommend Brubaker's runs since those are friendly to the fans of the movies. I'd suggest Gruenwald's run myself to further bolster what Ed and his artists did. And it was very cool to see his name in the special thanks list in CATWS credits.

    Yes, some of the comics are better than the films (Thor being an obvious example), but the Cap movies made me appreciate and love these characters even more. In the case of Captain America, he works beautifully in both mediums so I think you're both right.

    I just wish the comics were as good as the films are right now, but that's okay. I've got plenty of great Cap stories I'm rereading. Eventually another great creative team will come on board and I look forward to that.
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  13. #88
    Full sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold_War_Myth View Post
    I understand where you both are coming from and I've read a little bit more Cap (Brubaker, Gruenwald to name the two runs I really respect and love), but I think the films are as enjoyable as the comics. As much as I adore the Winter Soldier storyline, I do love the movie immensely for extrapolating what was so great about that run and actually using a far more insidious and awful villain (which was sole really good thing about Secret Warriors beyond Nick Fury striking back.)

    What the films get right is Captain America's character: the splendid moral core (the "good man") and the tried and true soldier. That's all I'd want and hope to be translated onto the big screen. Bucky was also translated perfectly.

    I've noticed a lot of people on tumblr asking for Cap and Bucky/WS comics to read. Yes, most people recommend Brubaker's runs since those are friendly to the fans of the movies. I'd suggest Gruenwald's run myself to further bolster what Ed and his artists did. And it was very cool to see his name in the special thanks list in CATWS credits.

    Yes, some of the comics are better than the films (Thor being an obvious example), but the Cap movies made me appreciate and love these characters even more. In the case of Captain America, he works beautifully in both mediums so I think you're both right.

    I just wish the comics were as good as the films are right now, but that's okay. I've got plenty of great Cap stories I'm rereading. Eventually another great creative team will come on board and I look forward to that.
    To the bolded: Agreed, agreed, agreed!

    I love that they absolutely nailed the core of who Steve is, at his core. They perfectly distilled his essense.

    Winter Soldier, while a fantastic movie, was a very poor representation of the actual 'Winter Soldier' story. That's okay though, because the story was complex and layered. It was drawing on plot threads that would be impossible to develop onscreen. Thus, my (admittedly stubborn) insistence that the films - no matter how good - are inferior to thier source material.

    The idea that SHIELD is corrupted is, in itself, not a new story either. Secret Warriors is actually the third such story (and the second featuring Hydra). SHIELD in the comics has been rebuild from the ground up several times.

    It was handled brilliantly in the film (and managed to avoid Nick Fury in bondage gear, ala 'Nick Fury vs SHIELD').

    It sucks that you're not enjoying the current direction of Captain America in the comics. I've been enduring the same enui during Wonder Woman's current run, and it's no fun.

    There are reams of Captain America comics out there to enjoy though. I've no doubt that there's a story waiting for you to uncover that will blow your mind. Brubaker and Gruenwald combined runs are still just a mere fraction of the material out there!
    Freedom is the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member Lady Warp Spasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    To the bolded: Agreed, agreed, agreed!

    I love that they absolutely nailed the core of who Steve is, at his core. They perfectly distilled his essense.

    Winter Soldier, while a fantastic movie, was a very poor representation of the actual 'Winter Soldier' story. That's okay though, because the story was complex and layered. It was drawing on plot threads that would be impossible to develop onscreen. Thus, my (admittedly stubborn) insistence that the films - no matter how good - are inferior to thier source material.

    The idea that SHIELD is corrupted is, in itself, not a new story either. Secret Warriors is actually the third such story (and the second featuring Hydra). SHIELD in the comics has been rebuild from the ground up several times.

    It was handled brilliantly in the film (and managed to avoid Nick Fury in bondage gear, ala 'Nick Fury vs SHIELD').

    It sucks that you're not enjoying the current direction of Captain America in the comics. I've been enduring the same enui during Wonder Woman's current run, and it's no fun.

    There are reams of Captain America comics out there to enjoy though. I've no doubt that there's a story waiting for you to uncover that will blow your mind. Brubaker and Gruenwald combined runs are still just a mere fraction of the material out there!
    Ah, thanks for the SHIELD / Hydra infiltration info. My memory of anything post Steranko Fury is weak at best because I haven't read much. I know Bru and Gruenwald are only scratching the surface. It's funny even though I'm not big on politics I seem to enjoy that in Cap.

    As far as the Winter Soldier storyline, I thought they largely kept the origin of the Winter Soldier intact (there were Russians mixed in with Zola's Hydra team, and I would not be surprised if a good deal of the original arm tech was Russian and not British in the comic's original schematics.) I wanted to see a lot more of this (since WS/Bucky is my favorite character) but I am content that between Sebastian's performance and what they chose to keep, it was as good as it could be working in the entire MCU. I let go of it not being the core storyline quickly and just allow myself to enjoy both mediums.

    But I digress ... and back to Captain America himself.

    I'm sure somewhere along the way I'll find another Cap run I'll enjoy. I came into the character with the WS storyline back in late 2005, so I'm still a newbie.
    archer * magician *soldier * spy

  15. #90
    Extraordinary Member DebkoX's Avatar
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    I'm glad they didn't pick an actor who was disgustingly muscular.
    That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, the happy highways where I went and cannot come again.

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