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  1. #1
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    Default Too Many X-Men/Lack of Team Structure

    The X-Men suffer from lack of identifiable X-Men. Meaning every time a writer comes up on a book, he wants to throw whatever random mutants on the team. The writer stays on for little more than a few months (okay a year) and the lineup fall apart.

    In the 80s the X-Men worked out because they had a stable lineup that slowly changed. Even in the 90s, for the most part they had just the blue and gold teams and the line ups did not change. Post Morrison it's been a bit of a disaster.

    I think Marvel needs to identify who the CORE X-Men are, and make just TWO teams. And keep these lineups LONG term. Some of the characters should go to a reconstituted Excalibur team too.

    Gold team.

    Phoenix (Jean)
    Storm(who is a goddess)
    Nightcrawler
    Iceman
    Gambit
    Monet
    Colossus
    Sunspot

    Blue Team
    Cyclops
    Wolverine
    Rogue
    Polaris
    Magik
    Gentle
    Kwannon
    Jubilee

    For both teams I tried to create a diversity of power sets and of characters. I didn't want to make say an all male or a female team, or an all white team.

    Excalibur
    Captain Britain
    Meggan
    Moonstar
    Psylocke
    Angel
    Trinary
    Maggot

    X-Force
    Cable
    Domino
    Warpath
    Boom Boom/Meltdown
    Karma
    Magma
    Thorn

    X-Factor
    the Cuckoos
    Havok
    Prodigy
    Madrox
    Wolfsbane
    Armor
    Banshee (Theresa aka Morrigan)
    this team can investigate the supernatural as they did before.

    The point is, if like in the 80s and the 90s books can have reliable, stable casts where the characters stories can grow and be developed, fans are likely to be interested in them again.

  2. #2

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    I like that you put a pinch of the newer characters in with the tried and trues. Overall I like these lineups.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  3. #3
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    The key to the too many X-Men problem is to tell stories about them, end those stories with well-written and satisfying deaths, and then prevent future writers from bringing them back for really stupid reasons. The X-Office is still stuck at step one. One of the most unhealthy things about this silly problem is that we have no room for fresh, new characters like the Avengers do.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member AHRNIHAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    The key to the too many X-Men problem is to tell stories about them, end those stories with well-written and satisfying deaths, and then prevent future writers from bringing them back for really stupid reasons. The X-Office is still stuck at step one. One of the most unhealthy things about this silly problem is that we have no room for fresh, new characters like the Avengers do.
    Avengers have solo books,which help them a lot in that regard.
    "I think what's been messed up about Cyclops is that he's the guy who believes. Charles has a dream, he believes in an idealized world. It's the other guy, the soul of it... that's who Cyclops is."

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    I think Marvel needs to identify who the CORE X-Men are, and make just TWO teams. And keep these lineups LONG term.
    The CORE X-Men are Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Rogue, and Colossus.

    Next question?

  6. #6
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AHRNIHAL View Post
    Avengers have solo books,which help them a lot in that regard.
    Sure, but Hickman Avengers had a boatload of new characters and old ones who became new Avengers, after Secret Wars every team had a new character and a truckload of new Avengers, and even now that the line has shrank for a while to give old heads the spotlight, they still got Ghost Rider there to add a fresh perspective, have West Coast Avengers, and split a lot of their new guys into their own franchise through Champions. This is all with a cap of like three Avengers books compared to the X-Line, which can hold like five team books.

    Meanwhile, the X-Line has had multiple teams in recent years with token minorities comprised of people created before the 2000's (and that's me not counting Storm in Extraordinary because she was the boss.) Something is very wrong when a franchise with a high bar like Earth's Mightiest Heroes is doing better at getting fresh faces in and representing the world than the franchise about an entire species who get powers during adolescence who parallel minority struggles. The Inhumans with their dinky three-five books on average have been doing a better job than the X-Men.

  7. #7
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Do the X-Men have lots of great characters along with vast potential for new ones? Yes but even the most diverse cast can't overcome faulty writing. I don't know how many of the issues [beyond Bunn's publicized O5 situation] are/were due to editorial manipulation but we need a good writer/editor situation in place long before we begin talking about team rosters.
    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    The CORE X-Men are Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Rogue, and Colossus.
    Next question?
    I think the core X-Men are Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Jean Grey, and maybe Rogue and Nightcrawler.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    The CORE X-Men are Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Rogue, and Colossus.

    Next question?
    I don't know about Rogue, Nightcrawler and Colossus. I guess they are but not over Jean. I'll say the core is Storm, Jean, Wolverine, Cyclops and Professor X.

  9. #9
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Yeah, and any team roster without a good editor to make sure all the bases are covered is screwed, because good editors make sure everything is set up right so that once the train leaves the station, they have to do less work. I'm pretty lenient to the O5 book in this category, though, because they come in a set (and yet the X-Office still broke them up for Lemire, because X-Office.)

    Realistically, the "core" X-Men are Wolverine, (the only one who's absolutely necessary in some form), Cyclops, Storm, and Magneto. Maybe Kitty.

  10. #10
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Jean Grey is the only character in fiction privileged enough to be absent for like 25 years of a franchise that's about 55 years old and still be considered core.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Jean Grey is the only character in fiction privileged enough to be absent for like 25 years of a franchise that's about 55 years old and still be considered core.
    Thanks for saying that. I listed CORE X-Men Operatives, not Cautionary Tales. And yes, of the six there is a hierarchy. Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops, Rogue, Nightcrawler, Colossus.

    As for the rest of the OP's thesis, I think anyone can fill a team with any two of the six listed above and it will be seen as an "X-Men team" unless the others in the roster are Marvel's trinity or Cap, Tony and Thor. Then you're just asking for trouble and money.

    Making two or even several teams isn't a bad idea, but I think the real problem is a lack of editorial allowing for writers to craft a long form story. Aren't most books designed to be eventually sold as (6 issue) trades? If the current business model is to offer a short 6 issue run to writers as a "test run" I'm sure the negotiation is to allow them whatever mutants they want.

  12. #12
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    You can't say "The X-Men suffer from lack of identifiable X-Men." and then list a bunch of identifiable X-Men excluding that Kwannon chick.

  13. #13
    Mysterious Telepath Spinster Sinister's Avatar
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    I like the OPs line of thinking a lot.

    Fatigue notwithstanding, I personally think Storm and Wolverine are the only essentials (the Cap and Iron Man if you will).

    I think Cyclops, Rogue, Nightcrawler, and Jean give the teams a classic/iconic flair but I think the X-Men still look like X-Men without them. I think all six have such rich histories that they can have big roles outside of being X-Men which I think could be healthy in the long run, both for them as individuals and for the teams (and of course their eventual return to form will be celebrated).

    Anyway, I very much like the idea of paring down the teams and even "reserve" X-Men into a manageable bunch. I think the 50+ legion of dormant X-Men just makes each lineup and relaunch feel even more haphazard. I'd love to see some iconic X-Men move on to other roles (not just death) and see New Mutants/Generation X/X-Force/Young X-Men step into big roles with rosters having an eye on diverse power-sets, visuals, personalities, and diverse racial makeups and sexual orientations.

    I think runs like Bunncanny didn't have enough/any iconic X-Men while Gold felt like a team of rusted relics. Would love to see something more in the middle (like Red...but less bloated) with an exciting premise driving the team.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Default

    I think the "CORE" X-Men are basically the 90's Blue and Gold team + Nightcrawler. That may sound like a lot of core members, but those are the X-Men that most people knew as X-Men when the X-Men were at their peak in pop culture.

    With that being said, go back to the idea of a Blue and Gold team again; use MOST of the 90's era Blue and Gold members to achor the roster, then occasionally switch a couple out here and there over time for the younger characters (Rockslide, Gentle, Dust, Armor, etc.) or traditional affiliate X-team characters (Shatterstar, Sunspot, Quicksilver, Magma, etc) who people love and want to see "graduate" to the main X-Men team sometimes.

    Here's an example:

    Blue Team:

    Cyclops (leader/energy projection)
    Wolverine (most popular member/stealth)
    Gambit (stealth character w/ energy projection)
    Psylocke (team telepath)
    Pixie (team teleporter/team flier/"young" mentee)
    Strong Guy (team muscle)
    Forge (Gunslinger/Brain of the team)

    Gold Team:

    Jean
    Storm
    Beast
    Bishop
    Colossus
    Surge
    Rictor

    Just examples (you get the point)
    Last edited by Uncanny Mutie; 12-17-2018 at 11:11 AM.

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    You can have a roster of ten over 3 books but if you only want to tell stories where one character does everything you're still going to fall into the same problem. Not too many X-Men but no X-Men team books with rehashing the same nostalgia crap over and over

    Really some characters aren't interesting enough to hold a series where they do everything and there lies the problem looking at you Red, Gold and Blue. There meant to be team books not solos

    Also the current X-Men roster is too homogeneous in personality
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 12-17-2018 at 11:10 AM.

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