"Batgirl" Creative Team Apologizes for Handling of Transgender Storyline in "Batgirl" #37

[resipsaloquitur]

Dagger is clearly at least a Drag Queen, and we still live in a world where the majority of the people out there don't directly know the difference between one gender non conforming individual and the next. All they'll see is "Man dressing and presenting as female is bad guy"

Well, maybe this is an opportunity to educate and inform rather than tear down. If Dagger is a drag queen, then he's not TS and this is a great opportunity for folks to get out there and inform the public of the distinctions. All the controversy seems to be doing is pissing people off, which really is not enlightening anyone.

[DemonRin]

And while I'm 150% all for equal representation among the DCU, as well as real life, it's the real people that are going to have a greater influence on the perception as a whole. A real person drawing negative attention to him/her self is going to be taken more seriously than a fictional character that only a small fraction of the public is even aware of will. And I feel that that's counterproductive to a cause that otherwise absolutely deserves support.

Imagine we were talking about something the world is already in agreement is bad, like Racism here.

Imagine DC Rebooted again and this time the DC Universe had NO Black characters whatsoever. They just flat out don't exist, there are no black people in the DC Universe one way or another. Then, about 19 issues in, one of the white characters you've seen the entire series states that they are actually black, they have a skin disease not unlike Michael Jackson did and their skin lightened as a result. You now have knowledge that character is supposed to be black, but because of the skin condition, they keep drawing that character white and anyone is now free to ignore that character being black as much as they want, because the "Really am black" thing just never gets brought up again after issue 19.

Now, imagine Issue 37 comes up, and suddenly, there's a new villain character introduced who appears on a surface level to be black, they have a much darker tone of skin than everyone else is drawn. It's explained in-story that character is actually white but got into an accident with some chemicals that gave them some kind of power, but also permanently rendered their skin a darker brown than all the other characters are drawn. IF you READ the issue, you read the explanation for why this character isn't REALLY Black, but by all appearances in the art, it's a person with darker than typical (remember, in this scenario, the entire DC Universe is white) skin who is totally evil.

If a black person complained about that, would you call them a whiner?

[QBall]

Dagger is clearly at least a Drag Queen

I didn't get that impression. Dagger's Batgirl was specific to the scheme, not part of a defining characteristic.

[Tazpocalapse]

Does Danny The Street and Lord Fanny count as Trans heroes?

[Sirzechs]

Dagger is clearly at least a Drag Queen

Not really as it is in the book he's been told to do so.

[PretenderNX01]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...pyCrossdresser

"A Crossdressing character whose choice of attire is played for weirdness, for creepiness, for Squick, simply for shock value, or to show that he (and it's virtually always "he") is evil or deranged. While the look of the Wholesome Crossdresser tends to gloss over the dissonance between genders, this trope often calls attention to it. Often, this crossdresser exaggerates Tertiary Sexual Characteristics without bothering to cover up secondary (or primary) ones. Make Up Is Evil is played Up to Eleven. Frequently, the unfortunate implication is that crossdressing is, in itself, creepy, but it may simply be one aspect of a character who's generally creepy.

Japanese works tend to play up a few common traits for this character type: a combination of a gaudy outfit, a Noblewoman's Laugh and absolute narcissism. He also often has a crush on the Big Bad, The Dragon, or in more humorous works, the Chaste Hero.

Sometimes coincides with both Trans Equals Gay and Depraved Homosexual, for a lethal combination of stereotypes. May overlap with Disguised in Drag (or, very rarely, its Distaff Counterpart, Sweet Polly Oliver) if the character adopts a crossdressing disguise more often than seems strictly necessary and/or enjoys it. Also may overlap with Fan Disservice. For the opposite, see Wholesome Crossdresser. See also Sissy Villain."

[DemonRin]

Does Danny The Street and Lord Fanny count as Trans heroes?

- Lord Fanny - As far as I can tell, no longer in Continuity as of The launch of the New 52
- Danny the Street - Has so far only made appearances in Teen Titans and no mention has thus far been made of his transvestite qualities from before the reboot. It was implied he died as well, but then we see "Danny the Alley" afterwards so... no idea if he's really dead or not.

Not really as it is in the book he's been told to do so.

drag queen
noun
a man who dresses up in women's clothes, typically for the purposes of entertainment.


Nothing in the basic definition of the term "Drag Queen" or "Drag" does making some form of a lifestyle out of it or doing it long term a requirement to be classified as one.

He dressed as a woman, using sequins which are a hallmark of Drag, in order to do his art show and stage performance. Even if he never did it again, that one act was definitively a drag act.

[Tazpocalapse]

Imagine we were talking about something the world is already in agreement is bad, like Racism here.

Imagine DC Rebooted again and this time the DC Universe had NO Black characters whatsoever. They just flat out don't exist, there are no black people in the DC Universe one way or another. Then, about 19 issues in, one of the white characters you've seen the entire series states that they are actually black, they have a skin disease not unlike Michael Jackson did and their skin lightened as a result. You now have knowledge that character is supposed to be black, but because of the skin condition, they keep drawing that character white and anyone is now free to ignore that character being black as much as they want, because the "Really am black" thing just never gets brought up again after issue 19.

Now, imagine Issue 37 comes up, and suddenly, there's a new villain character introduced who appears on a surface level to be black, they have a much darker tone of skin than everyone else is drawn. It's explained in-story that character is actually white but got into an accident with some chemicals that gave them some kind of power, but also permanently rendered their skin a darker brown than all the other characters are drawn. IF you READ the issue, you read the explanation for why this character isn't REALLY Black, but by all appearances in the art, it's a person with darker than typical (remember, in this scenario, the entire DC Universe is white) skin who is totally evil.

If a black person complained about that, would you call them a whiner?

Are their red, blue, green, and purple people in this Rebooted D.C. U?

[resipsaloquitur]

Isn't a drag queen typically someone who's known to be a male in women's clothes? RuPaul make no bones about who he is. My understanding is that Dagger was specifically trying to fool people into thinking he was Batgirl, up until the revelation.

I don't think we'd call Madame Fatal a Drag Queen. Wherever you got that definition from, it feels broader than it should be.

[QBall]

Lord Fanny - As far as I can tell, no longer in Continuity as of The launch of the New 52

Lord Fanny is a Vertigo character so was never "in continuity" pre New 52 either.

[DemonRin]

Are their red, blue, green, and purple people in this Rebooted D.C. U?

I'm trying to illustrate what it feels like being a trans person and looking at the state of modern mainstream comics and just flat out not seeing yourself represented at all.

That's exactly what it feels like. It feels like we are just intended not to exist in this universe, and then a villain character shows up who is NOT trans if you're paying attention, but on the surface level, looks and acts a lot like trans stereotypes (Dressed as a woman to "trick" people, etc)..... I'd just like SOME characters I can look to and say "Yay, I'm represented in this universe in some substantial way".

All I have right now is Alysia, who, since the creative team switch barely gets any panel time whatsoever, and even then, the fact that she's trans has received 0 panel time or acknowledgement since Batgirl 19.

You know what, it's kinda ambiguous and intentionally played as if he might be intersex, but Ystin is somewhat close to a trans character, and he's portrayed pretty well... I suppose I could latch onto that and read his-
DEMON KNIGHTS CANCELLED. CHARACTER NO LONGER APPEARS IN STORIES.


Well.... that's a thing.

[Nipower888]

Are their red, blue, green, and purple people in this Rebooted D.C. U?

Are there red, blue, green, and purple people in real life? No then hush.

[Claude]

Then, about 19 issues in, one of the white characters you've seen the entire series states that they are actually black, they have a skin disease not unlike Michael Jackson did and their skin lightened as a result. You now have knowledge that character is supposed to be black, but because of the skin condition, they keep drawing that character white and anyone is now free to ignore that character being black as much as they want, because the "Really am black" thing just never gets brought up again after issue 19.

Ah - the "Kyle Rayner/Dick Grayson" approach!

[DemonRin]

And for all the people saying, basically "If you actually read the story, he explains he was paid and put up to it by a villain, so he's totally not trans/drag queen due to this" does that mean it'd be ok if a villain suddenly showed up in Blackface doing a minstrel-show type dance while waving a gun around, but it went out of its way to explain he was paid to do that as a distraction, that'd be TOTALLY ok, right? I mean, the story went out of its way to say he wasn't really a black guy and was put up to acting like that, so NOBODY would have the right to be offended by that right?

[Nipower888]

I don't understand. It seems like:

- There's a villain impersonating Bat Girl.
- The villain is revealed to be a man.
- Bat Girl is surprised at that revelation.

Is there more to the issue than that? I don't see any disgust on her part, and I don't see anything specifically tied to transgender. Unless there's something more offensive elsewhere in the issue, I think this is sorta ridiculous.

I see it as since I'm not transgender this issue doesn't affect me and I wouldnt notice if it is transphobic because I'm not use to the negative portrayals and micro aggressions that most transgender people have to deal with. So if transgender people have a problem with this maybe I should just listen.