Sorry I'm Late!: Barry Allen Appreciation

[Frontier]

I can't say that I agree. Barry was boring in the Brave and the Bold mini and his only purpose was to be the straight-Man to Waid's Hal.

Barry has always been Hal's straight-man, but I think Waid still made Barry stand-out and feel unique in-spite of that.

I thought the story was one of the better attempts at writing a "modern" Barry while still keeping him in-character and distinct from Wally.

[KC]

Barry has always been Hal's straight-man, but I think Waid still made Barry stand-out and feel unique in-spite of that.

I thought the story was one of the better attempts at writing a "modern" Barry while still keeping him in-character and distinct from Wally.

Barry is more than Hal's straight-man, that's the problem. I don't think he made him feel unique at all.

The thing is, Barry wasn't written in character. When he is written in character, he is distinct from Wally.

[Frontier]

Barry is more than Hal's straight-man, that's the problem. I don't think he made him feel unique at all.

I agree that Barry is more then Hal's straight-man, and I think Waid did a good job of showcasing their friendship and the depth and complexity of it and how their personal characters and history have factored into it.

The thing is, Barry wasn't written in character. When he is written in character, he is distinct from Wally.

I agree, which is why I felt Waid did a good job with the Brave and the Bold mini .

[KC]

I agree that Barry is more then Hal's straight-man, and I think Waid did a good job of showcasing their friendship and the depth and complexity of it and how their personal characters and history have factored into it.

I agree, which is why I felt Waid did a good job with the Brave and the Bold mini .

And I think he was only Hal's straight-man in the Brave and the Bold mini and there was not much more to him or their friendship.

And that's why I think he did a terrible job. He was not written in character and he did not show anything which made Barry unique, which is not a good thing.

[Dred]

Barry wasn't a saint and when he wrote him like that, he glossed over some of Barry's other character traits. Barry was a great man who did his best, but Waid writing that part of the character correctly does not excuse him missing the mark on most of the other pars of his personality. And that is why he is seen as being "boring" because Waid did not write the rest of Barry's personality correctly.

You keep saying Waid did not write him in character but you haven't even said what character traits he missed out on. What core personality trait did Waid ignore? What character development that Barry previously exhibited did Waid neglect?

All of that said, I don't even get how you're saying this about the major particular story I'm talking about that I'm nearly sure you haven't read.

[Buried Alien]

At the most superficial level, Barry Allen seems to be a very simple character, but ironically, it's that very simplicity that makes him challenging to portray properly. How do you put a heroic spotlight on a guy who doesn't like drawing attention to himself (and I don't mean in that Batman-hiding-in-the-shadows way)? Superheroes are expected to have larger-than-life personalities, and most of them do, but Barry was traditionally depicted as grounded and humble in spite of his heroic spirit and actions.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Waterfall]

Mark Waid and Grant Morrison write the best Barry in modern age. I actually like Joshua Williamson's attempts at giving Barry flaws. There is one interview where Williamson says he asked to Morrison for tips on how to write Barry and Morrison told him to focus on his relationships since he was a normal dude. It's why many of Williamson's stories have Barry bouncing off someone else and I agree that.

I always thought that Barry is a simple, normal man but he's surroundered by the craziest things and even in Silver Age, stories were more about Barry reacting to those strange things happening in his life. For that alone Waid, Morrison & Williamson were great writers for the character.

However to this day I have no idea about the personality of Manapul's Barry, he was truly bland on an another level.

[ironman2978]

Mark Waid and Grant Morrison write the best Barry in modern age. I actually like Joshua Williamson's attempts at giving Barry flaws. There is one interview where Williamson says he asked to Morrison for tips on how to write Barry and Morrison told him to focus on his relationships since he was a normal dude. It's why many of Williamson's stories have Barry bouncing off someone else and I agree that.

I always thought that Barry is a simple, normal man but he's surroundered by the craziest things and even in Silver Age, stories were more about Barry reacting to those strange things happening in his life. For that alone Waid, Morrison & Williamson were great writers for the character.

However to this day I have no idea about the personality of Manapul's Barry, he was truly bland on an another level.

I think Buccelletto/Manapul Barry''s wasn't bland but he definitely was glossed over By the Rogues. I think it was better than what Geoff Johns did to be honest.

[Waterfall]

I think Buccelletto/Manapul Barry''s wasn't bland but he definitely was glossed over By the Rogues. I think it was better than what Geoff Johns did to be honest.

What Johns did was divisive but he was setting up a story about him finding place in the new universe which went to no where. Manapul/Booch Barry is as interesting as a paint drying on the wall. He only has Barry's generic traits and none of the actual character work.

Rather than Rogues, I feel like he was just lost in the run jumping over one arc to another without any breather issues. The Rogues were one-notes in personality. His side cast was also terrible. Since Silver Age, Barry had some fun side cast: Iris, Wally, Hal, Ralph, Al Desmond, Daphne Dean, Captain Frye etc. All of them were replaced by Patty Spivot, who must be the blandest love interest a superhero can have in a book. Barry is already a level headed guy and she's a wooden character who was only there to show Iris was a better suited option for Barry. Their banters were non-existent and she sucked the life out of comic every time she appeared. Even she was better in Silver Age where she was a bit quirkier. Johns neuterized her and Manapul/Booch didn't do anything else with her.

I'm so glad Williamson didn't return her to book and completely replaced with Kristen Kramer. She's a far more interesting character and she plays off Barry very well at lab. I'm very excited to see her sisterly partnership with Barry to develop.


That being said, as bland as Manapul/Buccellato Barry was, Venditti/Jensen's Barry was downright terrible so we're luckily moved past that.

[Frontier]

However to this day I have no idea about the personality of Manapul's Barry, he was truly bland on an another level.

I thought Manapul/Buccelato's Barry was pretty in-line with Williamson's, just a little less depressed or sad.

Rather than Rogues, I feel like he was just lost in the run jumping over one arc to another without any breather issues. The Rogues were one-notes in personality. His side cast was also terrible. Since Silver Age, Barry had some fun side cast: Iris, Wally, Hal, Ralph, Al Desmond, Daphne Dean, Captain Frye etc. All of them were replaced by Patty Spivot, who must be the blandest love interest a superhero can have in a book. Barry is already a level headed guy and she's a wooden character who was only there to show Iris was a better suited option for Barry. Their banters were non-existent and she sucked the life out of comic every time she appeared. Even she was better in Silver Age where she was a bit quirkier. Johns neuterized her and Manapul/Booch didn't do anything else with her.

I thought they did a solid job of re-introducing the Rogues, even if they were all revamped into Metahumans. I'd put they're use of the Rogues about on par with Williamson.

I don't know, I thought they did a solid job of building up a unique supporting cast for Barry even if future writers barely did much with them.

I'm so glad Williamson didn't return her to book and completely replaced with Kristen Kramer. She's a far more interesting character and she plays off Barry very well at lab. I'm very excited to see her sisterly partnership with Barry to develop.

I don't know if I realized before that Kristen is basically the new Patty .

[Waterfall]

I thought Manapul/Buccelato's Barry was pretty in-line with Williamson's, just a little less depressed or sad.

He was really just whatever. All that happened in book was Barry reacting to events that happened around him rather than having a proper character focus. Venditti and Jensen did that but...uh...We know how that turned out.

I thought they did a solid job of re-introducing the Rogues, even if they were all revamped into Metahumans. I'd put they're use of the Rogues about on par with Williamson.

Eh, not really. Besides Golden Glider reamp, I didn't like the liberties they took with characters. Williamson is mostly ignoring those stuff and pretending Johns run is still in canon. I would put Williamson faaaar above them.

I don't know, I thought they did a solid job of building up a unique supporting cast for Barry even if future writers barely did much with them.

What cast? Patty and....That ******* cop who dates Hartley (who is created by Johns and not them), the useless Frye (A Silver Age character who retconned to be in love with Nora for no reason) and that one scientist without any personality who vanished into thin air? Am I missing anyone?

I can't even remember their names.

I don't know if I realized before that Kristen is basically the new Patty .

She's basically the Silver Age Patty with a personality. She used to be Barry's partner at lab before Johns retconned all that unrequited love crap. I'm glad Williamson took a Johns OC from a Secret Files and gave them a solid personality to be a foil to Barry. She's fairly younger than him, when Barry came back from death she was merely an intern, she should be aroudn Wally's age i think. And she also confirmed to have feelings for August so Barry will be a big brother mentor to her and I'm excited for that. That's definitely more interesting than anything done with Patty in modern age.

[KC]

You keep saying Waid did not write him in character but you haven't even said what character traits he missed out on. What core personality trait did Waid ignore? What character development that Barry previously exhibited did Waid neglect?

All of that said, I don't even get how you're saying this about the major particular story I'm talking about that I'm nearly sure you haven't read.

His wit, sense of humour and charm.

I was talking about his portrayals of Barry in general, you're trying to make it about this one specific story.

[KC]

At the most superficial level, Barry Allen seems to be a very simple character, but ironically, it's that very simplicity that makes him challenging to portray properly.

I disagree, Barry is very easy to portray if you portray all of his characteristics correctly. I think this is proven by just how many writers were able to get it right.

[Frontier]

He was really just whatever. All that happened in book was Barry reacting to events that happened around him rather than having a proper character focus. Venditti and Jensen did that but...uh...We know how that turned out.

Most Superheroes are reactionary, and I think there was still solid character focus during said events.

Eh, not really. Besides Golden Glider reamp, I didn't like the liberties they took with characters. Williamson is mostly ignoring those stuff and pretending Johns run is still in canon. I would put Williamson faaaar above them.

The characterizations for each of The Rogues was pretty consistent and in-line with their general characterizations. I feel like the only thing Williamson's done is, rightfully so, bring back Captain Boomerang as a Rogue and re-establish the Rogues' classic looks for the most part.

Oh, and bring back Captain Cold as a more visionary, big-time, villain.

What cast? Patty and....That ******* cop who dates Hartley (who is created by Johns and not them), the useless Frye (A Silver Age character who retconned to be in love with Nora for no reason) and that one scientist without any personality who vanished into thin air? Am I missing anyone?

You mean Captain Singh? Who Williamson is still using, more or less?

I liked their Frye well enough. A lot better then how Venditti and Jensen used him.

Ah, I like Forrest .

She's basically the Silver Age Patty with a personality. She used to be Barry's partner at lab before Johns retconned all that unrequited love crap. I'm glad Williamson took a Johns OC from a Secret Files and gave them a solid personality to be a foil to Barry. She's fairly younger than him, when Barry came back from death she was merely an intern, she should be aroudn Wally's age i think. And she also confirmed to have feelings for August so Barry will be a big brother mentor to her and I'm excited for that. That's definitely more interesting than anything done with Patty in modern age.

I thought Patty was used fine in the Manapul/Buccelato run. My only issue was when it felt like she was taking panel-time away from Iris.

His wit, sense of humour and charm.

I thought Waid captured that well in his time on the title, moreso the humor and charm during the Brave and the Bold mini.

[Sam]

However to this day I have no idea about the personality of Manapul's Barry, he was truly bland on an another level.

I can't agree with that personally. Manapul's Barry was what got me into the character in the first place. I was very much into the Flash when I started reading his run, but my entire exposure at that point had been Wally. Even so, I immediately found Barry in Manapul's run endearing and relatable. I certainly don't think he was bland. I certainly wouldn't say Manapul's run is one of the greatest Flash runs ever and the portrayal of Barry is certainly not as layered and interesting as in Williamson's run, but it was a really solid entry point into the character of Barry Allen.