What if the classic heroes did return with books after Convergence, do you trust today's writers.

[Dataweaver]

@FanboyStranger: what you’re saying is true in a general sense; but it disregards the context of the thread: suppose that a book is going to be published that ties into a particular pre-Flashpoint continuity. This premise comes with a number of built-in assumptions, most notably that the target audience isn’t a generic comic book fan who just wants to read any good story he or she can find; rather, the target audience is a fan of the characters and storylines that made up the continuity being featured in this hypothetical book, and is specifically looking for more stories of that sort and/or featuring those characters. With that context in mind, it makes plenty of sense to ask whether said comic book fan would trust the current team at DC to produce the sorts of stories they’re anticipating.

Mind you, it’s a rather cynical question to ask, much like your own observations carry a certain degree of cynicism. The main difference is the target of the cynicism: you’re singling out the fans as the problem, and the OP is singling out the folks at DC as the problem.

[Ascended]

you’re singling out the fans as the problem, and the OP is singling out the folks at DC as the problem.

Honestly, I think both are the problem. Fans, generally, are not very welcoming of new concepts, characters, or new versions of old characters. We like what we like and are very critical of new stuff. We can be convinced and sold on it, but it's not easy to do. DC meanwhile, for many years, was too willing to give us the nostalgia we thought we wanted at the expense of making a product designed to entertain and/or nab newer fans. And so now the older fans control the market, making it far less profitable and infinitely harder for DC to do anything else *but* market to us.

DC puts out new stuff and weird stuff and fans don't buy it. Then we complain that there's nothing new or weird out there. At the same time, DC realizes that these fringe titles likely wont sell, so they dont bother putting A-list talent on those books, who might be able to get some hype built up.

Its a vicious cycle where both parties are (more or less) equally at fault for the current state of things.

[Dataweaver]

Really, this article nicely summarizes what many of us fans who are “stuck in the past” are looking for that the New 52 has thus far not provided. And as I’ve said before, I’m not looking for New 52’s Earth-0 to be eleminated in order to provide these things; between the Multiverse and Convergence, we now have several options for satisfying these desires that don’t involve messing with Prime Earth at all.

Which leaves me mystified as to why there appears to be such a powerful strain of “that stuff’s time has passed; get over it, and just be grateful for what DC is giving you now!” in the community here. Any hint that DC might throw us a bone, even a purely hypothetical one such as what started this thread, seems to be greeted with a cry of “you has-beens don’t deserve anything! Get with the program or go away!”

[Joe Kalicki]

Please don’t conflate “doesn’t see things the same way that you do” with willful blindness; it’s a needlessly snobbish and condescending stance to take.

Okay, I'll only use it to refer to people are willfully blind.

[llozymandias]

Really, this article nicely summarizes what many of us fans who are “stuck in the past” are looking for that the New 52 has thus far not provided. And as I’ve said before, I’m not looking for New 52’s Earth-0 to be eleminated in order to provide these things; between the Multiverse and Convergence, we now have several options for satisfying these desires that don’t involve messing with Prime Earth at all.

Which leaves me mystified as to why there appears to be such a powerful strain of “that stuff’s time has passed; get over it, and just be grateful for what DC is giving you now!” in the community here. Any hint that DC might throw us a bone, even a purely hypothetical one such as what started this thread, seems to be greeted with a cry of “you has-beens don’t deserve anything! Get with the program or go away!”

Since the late 80s, I imagine every one of DC's reboots as a "shift of focus" from one multiverse to another. For years I have wanted DC to have new stories set in their old continuities. I never insisted that the current continuity (whichever one was current at the time) had to be eliminated in order to give me what I wanted. It always strikes me as silly (or a sign of insecurity) when fans of one continuity (or version of a character) act threatened when someone expresses a preference for an older continuity (or version of a character). The continuities/multiverses I would like to see in new ongoing stories include: Pre-COIE, coie never happened here; COIE, coie & the events leading up to it happened here; Post-COIE, first appeared in issue #11 of coie, was the DCU until Man-of-Steel mini-series; Post-COIE II, first appeared in Man-of-Steel mini-series; Post-Zero-Hour; Post-Infinite-Crisis; & of course the current multiverse. It would be nice if convergence would lead into this happening. It would probably start with each old continuity having one title set in it. If those titles make enough money, that could lead to each old continuity having many ongoing titles set in it. Probably won't happen, but I wish it would.

[Dataweaver]

Since the late 80s, I imagine every one of DC's reboots as a "shift of focus" from one multiverse to another. For years I have wanted DC to have new stories set in their old continuities. I never insisted that the current continuity (whichever one was current at the time) had to be eliminated in order to give me what I wanted. It always strikes me as silly (or a sign of insecurity) when fans of one continuity (or version of a character) act threatened when someone expresses a preference for an older continuity (or version of a character).

Or, to be fair, a newer continuity or version of a character. Wally West fans who want stories set in a pre-Flashpoint continuity and/or featuring the red-headed Wally West Flash are one thing; Wally West fans who say that the biracial kid being featured in the post-Flashpoint continuity needs to go are another.

The continuities/multiverses I would like to see in new ongoing stories include: Pre-COIE, coie never happened here; COIE, coie & the events leading up to it happened here; Post-COIE, first appeared in issue #11 of coie, was the DCU until Man-of-Steel mini-series; Post-COIE II, first appeared in Man-of-Steel mini-series; Post-Zero-Hour; Post-Infinite-Crisis; & of course the current multiverse. It would be nice if convergence would lead into this happening. It would probably start with each old continuity having one title set in it. If those titles make enough money, that could lead to each old continuity having many ongoing titles set in it. Probably won't happen, but I wish it would.

I mostly agree with this list; the one point I’d argue would be tha what you call the CoIE continuity is no more a continuity of its own than Zero Hour is a continuity: CoIE was an event, one that transitioned between your pre-CoIE continuity and your post-CoIE continuity; unlike all of the other things you list here, there’s very little room for telling additional stories set in the CoIE itself — the 2000 “Legends of the DCU” which featured a “missing chapter” of the Crisis is about as far as you can take this. OTOH, the initial post-CoIE continuity that you mention (which I would call the Crisis Aftermath) has plenty of room in it for telling additional stories about those who were involved in the Crisis; indeed, a major point of drawing a distinction between that and the Byrne-initiated post-Crisis timeline is precisely that the Crisis Aftermath continuity is home to people who remember both the Crisis and what came before it — many of whom are blatantly “Crisis anomalies” whose histories were erased from this timeline but who continue to exist anyway.

[earl]

I think if the comics were better people wouldn't have as many problems with the New 52. When DC rebooted in the 80s, they made some of the best comics they ever did. I just don't think there are many of the New 52 reboots that anyone is really going to care much about 10 years down the line, let alone 25+. DC has launched probably close to a hundred titles since the reboot and I don't think they have come up with one classic run yet.

I think they blew it.

[Joe Kalicki]

I think if the comics were better people wouldn't have as many problems with the New 52. When DC rebooted in the 80s, they made some of the best comics they ever did. I just don't think there are many of the New 52 reboots that anyone is really going to care much about 10 years down the line, let alone 25+. DC has launched probably close to a hundred titles since the reboot and I don't think they have come up with one classic run yet.

I think they blew it.

Well I disagree, I think the quality is just as high as its ever been, and much better than it's been in at least 15 years, linewide.

[skyvolt2000]

I'm an old reader. I look for good books. Don't really care how they fit into the overall puzzle. (Or who publishes them, really.) If someone wants to make the puzzle part of the storyline-- say, Kurt Busiek or John Ostrander, the two best at it-- then I'm invested in the continuity. Otherwise, why?

I don't understand the "can you trust them?" part of this equation. Mostly because, as I interpret it, it's a very narrow view of what a character should be, generally determined by whatever standard the person read when they were a kid. If I don't like something, I move on. I'm a major fan of John Constantine, but his current book is mediocre. Stopped buying it. Found things I did enjoy.
?

The trust issue is if I give you a book to do-will you do your best job on it or will you do your worst job on it?

See Static Shock. The artist on that book didn't like the preorder numbers and we all know how that went. When he explained why he ruined Static-he pretty much said the book was going to fail no matter what he did.
So we saw Static get his arm cutoff, fight fake Power Rangers, clones, no home life, fake Joker and the worst done and edited issue of a comic in the history of DC Comics.

People like that should NOT be doing your books. I don't care if your book lasts 6 or 700 issues-you do the best story that you can do. Because you don't know who will be reading it. Or what might get greenlighted into a series or film. Or who you might attract to write it.

You say that as if JJ Abrahms Trek-verse is good.

Well to b fair-JJ didn't race change the cast like we saw with Wally. While the stories have changed the cast didn't. Plus you still have both universes stories being told. Now if they do Next Generation-I can see a ton of stuff changing. We might have Uhara & Spock's kid on the Enterprise. We might not even have an Enterprise B-E.

[Joe Kalicki]

The trust issue is if I give you a book to do-will you do your best job on it or will you do your worst job on it?

See Static Shock. The artist on that book didn't like the preorder numbers and we all know how that went. When he explained why he ruined Static-he pretty much said the book was going to fail no matter what he did.
So we saw Static get his arm cutoff, fight fake Power Rangers, clones, no home life, fake Joker and the worst done and edited issue of a comic in the history of DC Comics.

People like that should NOT be doing your books. I don't care if your book lasts 6 or 700 issues-you do the best story that you can do. Because you don't know who will be reading it. Or what might get greenlighted into a series or film. Or who you might attract to write it.

He was still trying to do the best book he could. It didn't work out, but it's not because he tanked it or whatever.

Well to b fair-JJ didn't race change the cast like we saw with Wally. While the stories have changed the cast didn't. Plus you still have both universes stories being told. Now if they do Next Generation-I can see a ton of stuff changing. We might have Uhara & Spock's kid on the Enterprise. We might not even have an Enterprise B-E.

He did change Sulu from Japanese to Korean.

[WillieMorgan]

I think if the comics were better people wouldn't have as many problems with the New 52. When DC rebooted in the 80s, they made some of the best comics they ever did. I just don't think there are many of the New 52 reboots that anyone is really going to care much about 10 years down the line, let alone 25+. DC has launched probably close to a hundred titles since the reboot and I don't think they have come up with one classic run yet.

I think they blew it.

That's just fanboy nostalgia talking...

[Kyer]

I'd maybe trust the writers to be able to do it well.
I'd trust the editors to make it so the writers didn't have a chance in He Double-L to do the characters justice because those same admin/editors brought us The Fall of the DCU and DC52 guidelines In my humble opinion, most everything from Secret Identity on has been subpar.

At this point I'd rather just hope some of the old writers quietly took up fanfic/art and I ran across their work. Would be a better chance of loving a DC story again.

[earl]

That's just fanboy nostalgia talking...

Ok, then what series do you think is really that great? Maybe I have missed something...If you guys like them cool, I have tried quite a few and haven't really found anything that I liked enough to keep on a pull list. I'll eventually pickup the Swamp Thing run as a back issue at some point. Only things I haven't read that some people seem to like is Lemiere's Green Arrow run and Azzarello's Wonder Woman. I really liked OMAC but I think I was one of the only 10 people to buy that one. All Star Western was pretty good too, but perhaps not as good as the Jonah Hex series before it. There is some really nice artwork on the Batman titles by Patrick Gleason and Greg Capullo, but the stories have had some pretty dumb moments. Batman Inc. was good, but that was a carry over from pre-52. Earth 2 and Animal-Man were ok what I have read, but not enough to stay on the pull list.

To me, I think DC and Marvel both are on a pretty bad cold streak. They both did some really good comics since 2000, but I think they are in a dry spell for me the last few years. With the newer super hero titles, I pretty much wait it out and see what is good anymore than read it as a back issue or pick it up in a trade.

[Darth Kal-el]

If you feel that way maybe you are burnt out on the hobby. Happened to me before and I needed a break, but for me I am buying more DC and Marvel than I ever have and enjoy them immensely. I keep looking for titles to drop for money reasons but love them all too much and I only read what I like. I probably buy seventy percent of marvel line and ninety percent of DC

[WillieMorgan]

Ok, then what series do you think is really that great? Maybe I have missed something...If you guys like them cool, I have tried quite a few and haven't really found anything that I liked enough to keep on a pull list. I'll eventually pickup the Swamp Thing run as a back issue at some point. Only things I haven't read that some people seem to like is Lemiere's Green Arrow run and Azzarello's Wonder Woman. I really liked OMAC but I think I was one of the only 10 people to buy that one. All Star Western was pretty good too, but perhaps not as good as the Jonah Hex series before it. There is some really nice artwork on the Batman titles by Patrick Gleason and Greg Capullo, but the stories have had some pretty dumb moments. Batman Inc. was good, but that was a carry over from pre-52. Earth 2 and Animal-Man were ok what I have read, but not enough to stay on the pull list.

To me, I think DC and Marvel both are on a pretty bad cold streak. They both did some really good comics since 2000, but I think they are in a dry spell for me the last few years. With the newer super hero titles, I pretty much wait it out and see what is good anymore than read it as a back issue or pick it up in a trade.

Well, that's entirely your prerogative. I can't talk about the quality of Marvels output as I don't read them (due to a lack of funds rather than some fanboy bias). I don't think there's any point in us comparing individual titles as I doubt we'll agree on them and, let's be honest, there's been enough debate on here about the merits of the New52. We don't need to go over them again, there's already enough threads full of arguments like that. I agree with Darth Kal-El above in that you sound like you could do with a break from comics, maybe feel burnt out?? I gave up comics during the 1990's (a genuine low point in comic book history) and, when curiosity dragged me back in a few years later, I found myself much more enthusiastic about things. That could well be why I find a lot of the relentless negativity on here perplexing sometimes.

I stand by the nostalgia comment above, although maybe aimed in a more generalising way not at you personally. Look at the premise of this thread. 'Do We Trust Today's Writers?'. Let's be honest, for certain people on here there's no point in even asking that question, the answer would be a resounding NO whatever. A lot of that is rooted in nostalgia. The idea that comics should be exactly the way they were during a certain period in a persons life. I'm like that about music. It bugs me that todays music scene isn't the same as it was in 1973. I'm never gonna like rap or hip-hop music and nothing will ever change that. A lot of that is rooted in nostalgia.

Like I said at the start though, if you don't like the approach of modern comics then that's entirely up to you. Neither of us is doing anything wrong.