Wonder Woman #37 SPOILERS

[dimo1]

My thoughts, of course I am not a devout reader like so many here, please ecuse my lack of WW history.

The art looked really nice, David Finch at his best, together with one of my favourite inkers Richard Friend.

I was a bit lost, who is the baby, who are the strange underwater people at the end? Did I miss anything?

It was a very short read, took ke just five minutes maximum, something I dislike about modern comics, not WW or Finch specific.

Never good to compare arcs, but as a huge fan of Azzarello's run I have to confess that I probably quit soon, the story doesn't seem to catch my interest and I stopped reading books just for the art.

[Typhoeus]

So Donna Troy is finally back!

[Outside_85]

Btw, when did Themyscira get a council who could order the queen around? I completely missed that in earlier books.

There wasn't one showed. But it's not exactly pulled out of the blue, the council was known as Ephors and they were basically set up to monitor and regulate the kings power. Sparta had this system and even 2 kings most of the time to make sure no one held too much power.

[wagthedog]

Honestly?

This is Diana's book. I want to see more of *her* helping others. I really do not like Meredith's voice for Diana. Two issues of being whiny to Aquaman and snappish to Superman is two issues too many.

I would have much rather seen Clark consoling her in her grief as is far more natural when someone loses a loved one, or Diana and Arthur having a mature discussion about the difficulties of ruling a kingdom while being in the Justice League. The dialogue just felt so off to me.

Btw, when did Themyscira get a council who could order the queen around? I completely missed that in earlier books.

Probably because Azz didn't really setup the dynamics of Diana's world on the island very well or clear. Or you could say to read between the lines of the Azz book and assume they were there.

[Outside_85]

Probably because Azz didn't really setup the dynamics of Diana's world on the island very well or clear. Or you could say to read between the lines of the Azz book and assume they were there.

I wonder, do you blame Perez or any of the other writers for never mentioning Alkyone and the other Circle members or any mention of Paradise Islands prison system before they appeared under Simones pen?

[Dr. Poison]

It depresses me to see Paradise Island back at the center of things ..and everything else treated like a side story, ..u-uuh-gain, ..but, WW #37 delivered enough of what it needed to string me along for awhile longer. It's also great to see Donna Troy back, and I can't wait to see what her new back story is; hopefully, something simple and memorable, ..with no Titans of Myth, space gods or New Cronus. I'm a proper comic slob...not a geek...so, no loyalty, here, and no promises of how long I'll be buying this.

Now, where is Zola, Zeke and Hermes? Where is the townhouse?

I have to agree that I'm thrilled that, at least as of yet, there are no Titans of Myth in sight as far as Donna's creation goes. That was what started all of her problems Post-Crisis. Everything escalated and became convoluted from there.

[Dr. Poison]

Yup.

I'm also sad to say that I don't really mind the loss of Hippolyta. If pre-Flashpoint Hippolyta had died like this, I would've been outraged. New 52 Hippolyta? Sorry, I count her as no great loss.

Azz failed us with Hippolyta. Far as I'm concerned, the Finches just threw out some of Azz's trash.

(And yes, I am greatly disturbed by how easily I can call Wonder Woman's freaking MOTHER "trash" without even blinking. Thanks, Azz.)

I feel the same way. New 52 Hippolyta was nowhere near as admirable, developed, or intriguing as Post-Crisis Hippolyta. I couldn't care less that she's gone or if she ever returns. R.I.P. you lying adulterous, sex-raid condoning monarch.

[wagthedog]

I wonder, do you blame Perez or any of the other writers for never mentioning Alkyone and the other Circle members or any mention of Paradise Islands prison system before they appeared under Simones pen?

Since you ask, I was not a great fan of Simones run. I didn't like Alkyone in particular. I didn't like how regular amazons, very beneath Diana in powers were able to give her any amount of trouble. But Simone was trying to setup Alkyone as someone in Diana's class in terms of power and I felt that was just out of place.

Perez did give us a definitive origin for Diana, something that Azz didn't do. And other writers could take his premise and go from there as he setup a great structure to build from. In Azz's world which isn't really defined except for his godly crime family, other writers are just going to have to read between Azz's lines and come up with stuff.

And strawman argument aside, I don't believe Perez or any other writer needs to outline who exactly everyone should be. But Azz certainly gave the vaguest of outlines in his story.

[Outside_85]

Since you ask, I was not a great fan of Simones run. I didn't like Alkyone in particular. I didn't like how regular amazons, very beneath Diana in powers were able to give her any amount of trouble. But Simone was trying to setup Alkyone as someone in Diana's class in terms of power and I felt that was just out of place.

As far as I remember, the Circle being able to fight Diana should just have been an extension of
A) Zeus taking away her powers to fuel Archilles.
B) Bill Loeb's trick about Diana being an average Amazon as long as she was on Paradise Island.

Perez did give us a definitive origin for Diana, something that Azz didn't do. And other writers could take his premise and go from there as he setup a great structure to build from. In Azz's world which isn't really defined except for his godly crime family, other writers are just going to have to read between Azz's lines and come up with stuff.

Which is exactly the same thing Perez (an every other story writer for that matter) passed on when he was done, only his was far more restrictive, meaning it was more easy to upset readers who kept track of these kinds of details between writers.

And strawman argument aside, I don't believe Perez or any other writer needs to outline who exactly everyone should be. But Azz certainly gave the vaguest of outlines in his story.

The question left unanswered here is: Why should Azzarello give this information when no one else did previously?

[Vanguard-01]

That's almost a reason for hope.

Still, what bothers me most is Diana's friendlessness. She has no really reliable allies other than Superman. More than anything else, this is what's wrong with the rebooted character. The relationship with Superman would not be so hard to take if she also had a different but friendly relationship with anyone else, and some evidence of a life of her own. As is, it tends to define and swallow her, and it can't last anyways.

The Gods are not her allies. The Amazons are not her allies. Luthor's Justice League are not reliable allies. Zola's gone. No wonder Finch writes her as constantly kvetching. And now Donna is reintroduced... as an enemy. Her world has never been emptier. This is wrong for any superhero, but especially wrong for Wonder Woman.

The Gods are not Diana's allies as a group. Hermes, however, has been largely friendly, except for his one-time betrayal. Aphrodite didn't do much in Azz's run, but nothing was done to suggest that she can't be friendly toward Diana. Artemis appeared to gain respect for her, as well.

As for the League? Last issue, the Finches were clearly trying to establish Aquaman as a potential friend for Diana, which is a Hell of a lot more than Johns has given us in over three years. Johns would have us believe that the League is still just this loose alliance of heroes that only comes together when there's a problem and breaks apart the moment the problem is resolved. Arthur was clearly reaching out to Diana in the first issue, and hopefully that will continue.

Jeff Parker also put forward the idea of Diana and Arthur becoming friends in the Aquaman Annual. In the second story, Diana even started to re-establish her friendship with Mera during their teamup. If you haven't read that Annual, I highly recommend you give it a try. Both stories are excellent and Diana is great in both of them.

So, yeah. Diana DOES have friends outside of Superman. Once again, thanks to Azz, we just haven't seen this established in Diana's own book because Azz kept Diana cloistered away from everyone else in the DCU. But in other books, other writers are establishing Diana's friendships much better.

[wagthedog]

As far as I remember, the Circle being able to fight Diana should just have been an extension of
A) Zeus taking away her powers to fuel Archilles.
B) Bill Loeb's trick about Diana being an average Amazon as long as she was on Paradise Island.



Which is exactly the same thing Perez (an every other story writer for that matter) passed on when he was done, only his was far more restrictive, meaning it was more easy to upset readers who kept track of these kinds of details between writers.



The question left unanswered here is: Why should Azzarello give this information when no one else did previously?

As I have stated before, this is a new continuity, a new hard reboot so Azz was the first to give us this info if he wanted to. There was no writer before him when he introduced whole scale changes to Diana's mythos, so there was no one there before him when he wrote the arc. If you want to keep thinking that this run is somehow an extension of Perez's, then go ahead and believe that.

[brettc1]

In short. It was a bit better than the last one. IMO, the writing wasn't as stiff and such.

The art was also a bit better in some places, since Diana looks a bit more mature at times. But also even younger than before in others. Still not my cup of tea. There's also one or two panels I figure will come to question.

-Ares's robo birdys attack. Diana kills them. Didn't know they existed.
-The evil witch gives Diana a choice. The island of women, or world of men. Saying Diana must act queen or the amazons will look weak. Diana gets a call from Cyborg and must leave. Says she'll be back. The evil witch says there'll be consequence.
-The witch and some blue woman monster of sorts are cooking something. There's a woman with a baby there. Looks like they'll kill a baby, but they kill the mother instead. They then boil the clay Hippolyta. The witch lets a tear fall for her sister.
-Clark and Diana are sparing. Diana says she's: "--kicking serious super butt today...". Then: "The only things we truly can control in this life are our choices."
-Some blue monsters are chatting. "It has begun.", and the traitor (the witch?) will do what needs to be done.
-The witch stew is ready. From it, Donna Troy rises.

An okay issue I guess. I'll probably give it a couple of issues.

In short is right. I read this in 6 minutes.

When Diana is angry I she looks so young I keep expecting her to stamp her foot and scream for a pony.

Kicking super-butt? Clark is not even sweating. So much for superior fighting skills.

Donna Troy's new baby murder origin is just about the suckiest reboot ever.

[brettc1]

Why was Diana tolerating the disrespect from the old crone? She called the Diana "girl" when Diana is the rightful queen and Diana just let it go (as did other amazons in the council). Seems the new-52 amazons are being written as somewhat disrespectful overall. For all their worship of the Olympians, they didn't seem to show them much regard when the gods/goddesses where on the island in the last arc.

This has got me confused too. There's a council now? Did they have a meeting while Hippolyta was confronting Hera and take a vote on whether they would go out to defend her? This is just ludicrous.

I could have gone alone with the crone sowing dissent but this whole lapse into a half-baked parliamentary democracy simply to insert a plot point that Diana is being pulled by different responsibilities seems hopelessly contrived. This problem could have been been done so much better than this.

[Outside_85]

As I have stated before, this is a new continuity, a new hard reboot so Azz was the first to give us this info if he wanted to. There was no writer before him when he introduced whole scale changes to Diana's mythos, so there was no one there before him when he wrote the arc.

And he chose not to detail some items, just like every fiction writer has chosen to do since the dawn of mankind.

Add to this it would be pretty stupid of him to detail every little thing because it would rob future writers potential stories

Btw, I am pretty sure a mod is going to remind us shortly about this thread not being about Azzarello, so we should probably stop.

[wagthedog]

As far as I remember, the Circle being able to fight Diana should just have been an extension of
A) Zeus taking away her powers to fuel Archilles.
B) Bill Loeb's trick about Diana being an average Amazon as long as she was on Paradise Island.

This was Simones first arc (The Circle), so Achilles wasn't even a thought yet, therefore Zeus taking away her powers wouldn't have happened. Also, I would question how Zeus can take away her powers when the goddesses were the ones who gave it to Diana. But I digress, plus comic book logic will just explain that away by saying Zeus is all powerful so he could do whatever he wants.

I believe the Bill Loebs trick was just for that arc. Someone with a better memory than me might be able to explain this, but I think Hippolyta had someone cast an enchantment on Diana just for the duration of that arc. Otherwise, Simone didn't have that luxury in her arc, nor did she define or say that Diana was just a regular amazon. Which is why I never took Alkyone as a credible threat, although she seemed to be a favorite of Simones and she certainly tried to build her as one.