The Hydra Guessing Game (Captain America 2 Spoiler)

[ExcelsiorPrime]

There's no Hydra agent in the X-men. She's a liar.

Psssssssst Emma Frost. Who has been disassembling the X-men from within for years. Do you think Scott Summers would throw away 40 years of boyscout to become Shia labeouf with Eye beams?

Psychic Coercion.

[Mr MajestiK]

i don't mind all the Hydra stuff but i am really tired of SHIELD showing up everywhere...especially in the X Books.

The X-books are part of the 616 MU yes?

Why wouldn't SHIELD appear in them occasionally if the story warranted it?

[Smoov-E]

The X-books are part of the 616 MU yes?

Why wouldn't SHIELD appear in them occasionally if the story warranted it?

Especially since some of them are wanted criminals

And are built to handle threats posed by people with super powers and SHIELD don't even show up as much as people like to say they do

[Hypestyle]

In today's Captain America, this bit of info was released:



A Hydra agent is on every superhero team. Avengers, X-Men, Inhumans, etc. So I guess we should begin the guessing game on who's Hydra now....


Probably would explain why Crystal has been absent so much.

So is SHIELD where Layla ended up?

[vitruvian]

In today's Captain America, this bit of info was released:



A Hydra agent is on every superhero team. Avengers, X-Men, Inhumans, etc. So I guess we should begin the guessing game on who's Hydra now....


Probably would explain why Crystal has been absent so much.

And of course, even if Misty got this intel from the new Hydra in her undercover gig on Bagalia... some or all of it could be disinformation. Think about it: if they made her, or even if they didn't and just figured on it disseminating somehow (since it's not like the itinerant criminal population there is necessarily loyal to Bagalia or Hydra any more than they are to law and order, so chances are good somebody will snitch when caught next time), this could be total BS designed to cause paranoia and dissension, or it could be true for some teams and a bluff for others, or maybe it's technically true but some of the Hydra traitors aren't actually current members.

The possibilities for how to play this going forward are endless. Remember, even if Misty herself is totally reliable on this, the intel she's gathered may not be.

[Prof. Warren]

The whole premise is dumb.

How is the idea that members of every super team have been converted to Hydra "dumb?" I mean, honestly, is it beyond the scope of plausibility that members of the superhero community have had some change of heart that makes them see Hydra's goals as preferable? Of course not. Just as in real life, people hold political views that run counter to what other people believe is morally correct or have secret agendas unknown to their family and friends, so to can it be in the MU. As for saying "well, if a team has psychics, then how can someone keep their thoughts hidden...", I'm sure anyone who seriously wants to keep a secret in the MU can find a way to do it. And unlike Secret Invasion, I like that this can't be easily undone with "well, that was just a Skrull posing as me."

As for the issue itself, Remender has really hit the ground running with All-New Cap. It's funny how his Sam Cap feels more like Classic Cap so far than his previous run with Steve did.

[coveredinbees]

It's Rachel Summers!!!

[Prof. Warren]

I read ANCA #2 and if they're doing what I think they're doing, I'm probably going to drop this book. I'm really not interested in reading books connected to the movies. I like the movies but not enough to read books directly connected to them. let MCU have their own line of books so the regular books can be spared.

What do you think they're doing and how is it connected to the movies? If the idea of Hydra deeply infiltrating the Marvel U seems like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. or Winter Solider, so what? It doesn't make them "connected." It's not like the idea should be off-limits in the comics because it's something that was touched on in the TV shows and films.

Personally, I love the idea that Sam is beginning his career as Cap finding out that he's already deep in a hole and has a lot of work to do to get ahead of his enemies.

[Username taken]

The X-books are part of the 616 MU yes?

Why wouldn't SHIELD appear in them occasionally if the story warranted it?

Exactly.

I'm not one of those saying that comics should reflect the movies but it becomes rather absurd for us to not want Marvel to use elements of their own universe simply because it was reflected in the movies.

I mean anyone who has read Captain Americs over thr years knows Captain America has been battling HYDRA for decades and they can't suddenly stop using HYDRA because the movies used them. Same with SHIELD.

[Reviresco]

How is the idea that members of every super team have been converted to Hydra "dumb?" I mean, honestly, is it beyond the scope of plausibility that members of the superhero community have had some change of heart that makes them see Hydra's goals as preferable? Of course not. Just as in real life, people hold political views that run counter to what other people believe is morally correct or have secret agendas unknown to their family and friends, so to can it be in the MU. As for saying "well, if a team has psychics, then how can someone keep their thoughts hidden...", I'm sure anyone who seriously wants to keep a secret in the MU can find a way to do it. And unlike Secret Invasion, I like that this can't be easily undone with "well, that was just a Skrull posing as me."

As for the issue itself, Remender has really hit the ground running with All-New Cap. It's funny how his Sam Cap feels more like Classic Cap so far than his previous run with Steve did.

Yes. It's beyond the scope of plausibility for me, that all the superhero groups (who are allegedly good guys) have at least one member that suddenly decides the goals of a bunch Nazis are preferable.

[Reviresco]

Exactly.

I'm not one of those saying that comics should reflect the movies but it becomes rather absurd for us to not want Marvel to use elements of their own universe simply because it was reflected in the movies.

I mean anyone who has read Captain Americs over thr years knows Captain America has been battling HYDRA for decades and they can't suddenly stop using HYDRA because the movies used them. Same with SHIELD.

I'm not saying don't use SHIELD and Hydra. I would love a SHIELD and Hydra book, with the real Nick Fury. But when a good portion of the MU characters suddenly have SHIELD affiliation -- like Misty Knight, and heck, now Susan Richards has been retconed as SHIELD agent! And SHIELD keeps popping up everywhere, it's just too much.

[Prof. Warren]

Yes. It's beyond the scope of plausibility for me, that all the superhero groups (who are allegedly good guys) have at least one member that suddenly decides the goals of a bunch Nazis are preferable.

Sadly, in both real life and comics, many bad guys believe that their goals and methods are "good." That's why they're disturbing. When Dick Cheney says he condones torture and feels no remorse, that can be seen as a reprehensible attitude by some or a justified one by others.

[vitruvian]

Yes. It's beyond the scope of plausibility for me, that all the superhero groups (who are allegedly good guys) have at least one member that suddenly decides the goals of a bunch Nazis are preferable.

Who says it was sudden, or entirely of their own free will, though?

There are characters on many of teams who have good reason (more or less, depending) to be resentful of the team, or to doubt the efficacy of the team in actually doing good in the world, and so could have gradually become disaffected.

It's hardly just in AoS that Hydra has a history of brainwashing and subversion. That was a staple of theirs even back in the Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD days, let alone in the years since when they've had connections with the Hand, etc. And don't forget that even just Zemo himself is perfectly capable of such measures, and seems to have built a coalition of supervillains who all have their own resources to lead the group.

And we should also note that his coalition's goals, with the possible exception of Sin, don't seem to be as directly tied to Strucker's original Nazi vision of the organization... although it's true that if they didn't want to be seen as implicitly Nazis by most, they really should ditch the Hydra name and rebrand themselves.

But regardless, I seriously doubt that we're supposed to take this revelation as meaning a bunch of people just spontaneously did random heel turns to the Nazi side of their own free will one day. There would have been a recruitment process in each case.

[Tazpocalapse]

I am more inclined to believe that once again Hydra has infiltrated S.H.E.I.L.D. and is now using deception to cause dissention in all superteams to destroy trust within the teams as well as having the individual teams not trust each other. This could be one of the reasons so many people are S.H.I.E.L.D. operatives 8 months later.So if Hydra has secretly compromised S.H.I.E.L.D. for the like 100th time what she is saying could be true. Also maybe Hydra/S.H.I.E.L.D. is using advanced LMDs to infiltrate the groups.The Hydra agent is most likely using a network of traitors to funnel Misty the lies,therefore having her do the dirty work for them.

[Vic Vega]

Yes. It's beyond the scope of plausibility for me, that all the superhero groups (who are allegedly good guys) have at least one member that suddenly decides the goals of a bunch Nazis are preferable.

You have had several members of both the Xmen and Avengers who have done the heel/face turn bit. There also may be brainwashing involved.