Captain America #2 Spoilers

[Mr MajestiK]

You mean weak Falcon needing Steve all the time. yeah I read that too!

Winter Soldier never went back to Cap this much. And Falcon has been Captain America's Partner for 4o plus published years. You would think he would know what to do.


A friend of mine isnt pleased with the start. he did suggest something interesting. What If Bradley (pre-CAP) was the New Captain America and Falcon was his Partner--talk about a man out of time story. Bradley has seen as much as Cap but has a different perspective.

But anyway I hope this book gets around to featuring Wilson.

Agreed 100%.

Wilson is supposed to be a bad ass in his own right but for whatever reason, Remender stays portraying him as an innefectual idiot constanly in need of rescuing by others. :smh:

[Rzerox21xx]

Fun issue, not only they brought back Baron Blood, but I got some nice cameo of Deathwatch(Ghost Rider Ketch villian) watching alongside the other villians. I also saw Jack O Lantern, I guess he's Remender's pet villian(being in Flash Thompson nemesis in Rick's Venom and appearing on Axis)much like Jason Aaron love using the Orb.

[Prof. Warren]

Agreed 100%.

Wilson is supposed to be a bad ass in his own right but for whatever reason, Remender stays portraying him as an innefectual idiot constanly in need of rescuing by others. :smh:

I think "ineffectual idiot" is a bit much. He's been bailed out of a jam or two. Even Steve needed a hand now and then - why else would he need a partner? As for Sam, I think he's holding his own ok.

[ExcelsiorPrime]

I think "ineffectual idiot" is a bit much. He's been bailed out of a jam or two. Even Steve needed a hand now and then - why else would he need a partner? As for Sam, I think he's holding his own ok.

You do have to admit that Falcon had to be bailed out twice in two issues. Compare that with Winter Solder.

[Prof. Warren]

You do have to admit that Falcon had to be bailed out twice in two issues. Compare that with Winter Solder.

Yes, but when Sam fought Crossbones in this issue, he had just taken a bullet in the arm and even with that disadvantage he did ok.

[Mr MajestiK]

I think "ineffectual idiot" is a bit much. He's been bailed out of a jam or two. Even Steve needed a hand now and then - why else would he need a partner? As for Sam, I think he's holding his own ok.

My viewing FalCap as a tactically inept and "inneffectual idiot" works just fine from where I'm sitting especially when one considers the scans ExcelsiorPrime has posted depicting Winter Soldier kicking all kinds of ass unaided under similar circumstances.

The launching of FalCap has been severely compromised by its connection to the Axis event and only time will tell how future depictions of the character will play out in future.

You're quite right that Rogers had help from time to time but I'm yet to read a single issue where he needed to be rescued by sidekicks so frequently.

[phantombassist]

My viewing FalCap as a tactically inept and "inneffectual idiot" works just fine from where I'm sitting especially when one considers the scans ExcelsiorPrime has posted depicting Winter Soldier kicking all kinds of ass unaided under similar circumstances.

I can see where you're coming from in regards to those Brubaker Winter Soldier fights, however you have to admit Bucky is still technically an enhanced human while Sam is generally regarded as being within the extremely athletic but still human tier for Marvel Heroes. Remender does seem to be playing Sam off as constantly being at a noticeable disadvantage, but I think he is writing him that way on purpose initially to drive home the whole under dog, big shoes to fill premise. It also gives him an excuse to use Nomad (his character) more as a balancing force to make things seem even. As the story progresses I think Sam is going to slowly step up more and more to the challenge as the proverbial training wheels come off (less direction from Steve due to possible Hydra infiltration and less assistance from Nomad as his Dimension Z attitude and methods come into conflict with his new responsibilities).

[Mr MajestiK]

I can see where you're coming from in regards to those Brubaker Winter Soldier fights, however you have to admit Bucky is still technically an enhanced human while Sam is generally regarded as being within the extremely athletic but still human tier for Marvel Heroes. Remender does seem to be playing Sam off as constantly being at a noticeable disadvantage, but I think he is writing him that way on purpose initially to drive home the whole under dog, big shoes to fill premise. It also gives him an excuse to use Nomad (his character) more as a balancing force to make things seem even. As the story progresses I think Sam is going to slowly step up more and more to the challenge as the proverbial training wheels come off (less direction from Steve due to possible Hydra infiltration and less assistance from Nomad as his Dimension Z attitude and methods come into conflict with his new responsibilities).

I really hope you're right.

[Tien Long]

I'll have to read the issue again, but I was generally satisfied. I did have my gripes, however. There seemed something stop and go about the narration. Also, the whole conspiracy/planted agents angle, while an intriguing concept, has been already been done. We've seen this in Winter Soldier and Secret Invasion.

As for Sam looking weak, I could also see that. Indeed, taking out a gun on Crossbones and being rescued by Misty were not exactly moments of heroic fortitude. Still, I look at things in context. Sam was thrust into a situation against Captain America's greatest foes IN a city filled with super villains WHILE his partner was captured AND THEN having the person who he came to rescue betray him AND FINALLY learning that every major team in the MU has been comprised by Hydra. If Steve, Winter Soldier, Black Widow, Elektra, Shang-Chi, Spider-Man, Punisher, Moon Knight, or any other Marvel street level hero was in that situation, I think that they'd be messing up as well.

Still, Sam put up a decent fight and did so in his own way. Didn't he do a Charging Star to Crossbones while flying? Steve could never do that. Neither could Bucky.

Sam's gonna pull through. Rooting for him all the way.

[Of Atlantis]

You do have to admit that Falcon had to be bailed out twice in two issues. Compare that with Winter Solder.

My viewing FalCap as a tactically inept and "inneffectual idiot" works just fine from where I'm sitting especially when one considers the scans ExcelsiorPrime has posted depicting Winter Soldier kicking all kinds of ass unaided under similar circumstances.

I understand what people are saying about FalCap, and absolutely agree to an extent, but I have a problem with these comments. Bucky had some great moments, but that entire run had him being saved by the likes of Black Widow, Steve, Falcon and Namor. Numerous times. He got himself captured so many times it became a running joke. He needed help constantly, to the point I actually had a problem with it too, similar to how you guys are reacting to FalCap. That's not to say it wasn't a stellar run, but I followed that series very closely and can tell you without a doubt that Bucky could've been portrayed as much more competent. That said, he had many redeeming moments, which all followed after tremendous failures.

He had no role in Secret Invasion, had Steve take over temporarily during Siege and got killed in Fear Itself. His New Avengers run was plagued with bad characterization and depicted as an actual inneffectual idiot (see scans, this was as good as it got). He didn't even save Steve in Cap: Reborn, Steve saved himself. At the end of his own books, both Cap and Winter Soldier, he even lost!





So I have to call out comparing FalCap's ineptitude to Bucky's competence. The only difference is that Bucky had a long enough run as Cap to actually have some redeeming moments. FalCap has not, and until his tenure plays out, it's unfair to post selective moments of Bucky's highs and say, look at Bucky be awesome all the time, when that simply wasn't the case for much of his run. Not since Born Again have I seen a character take so many L's.

The launching of FalCap has been severely compromised by its connection to the Axis event and only time will tell how future depictions of the character will play out in future.

This I absolutely agree with. Personally, I've decided to skip both Axis and Mighty Avengers because of it. I've found myself enjoying FalCap a lot more since I have.

[Emma's Midriff]

You do have to admit that Falcon had to be bailed out twice in two issues. Compare that with Winter Solder.

Bucky is a better fighter than Wilson.

[ExcelsiorPrime]

Bucky is a better fighter than Wilson.

Apparently being trained in hand to hand combat for years by Captain America--compared to Bucky's training in a relatively shorter amount of time means absolutely nothing.

TIMELINE--
Bucky at 15 stumbles into the army tent of Steve Rogers--exposing his secret ( No pun intended) The army decides to recruit the kid as youth symbol for the war. Captain America trains the kid for a year before going into combat.
Introduction 1940. Training 1941. War combat 1942-1945 (wherein Bucky dies) Captain America's Partner for 5 Years Prior to resurrection.


Snap Wilson encounters Captain America on Exile Island and convinces him to don the Falcon persona to inspire the natives to rebel against Red Skull. Who uses the Cosmic Cube on him granting him the ability to correspond with birds. Introduction 1969. Captain America's Partner for 45 YEARS Captain America takes Falcon under his wing (again no pun intended) training Falcon in hand to hand combat for decades.



Now the problem I have is how can a teenager who fought with Cap for years against ordinary Army foes, an occasional Red Skull be light years ahead in skill compared to Falcon who has faced Super villain after Super villain.
Not to mention Hydra and Aim Armies. The way Wilson is written it makes him out to be some dude who can fly that can win an occasional bar-fight.


If you were trained by Bruce Lee for 45 years ( Sliding comic book timescale 10 to 14 years) compared to a 15 year old who had training for 5 years...don't you think the student who had the longer training would at least have skill on par if not close?

[Mr MajestiK]

Apparently being trained in hand to hand combat for years by Captain America--compared to Bucky's training in a relatively shorter amount of time means absolutely nothing.

TIMELINE--
Bucky at 15 stumbles into the army tent of Steve Rogers--exposing his secret ( No pun intended) The army decides to recruit the kid as youth symbol for the war. Captain America trains the kid for a year before going into combat.
Introduction 1940. Training 1941. War combat 1942-1945 (wherein Bucky dies) Captain America's Partner for 5 Years Prior to resurrection.


Snap Wilson encounters Captain America on Exile Island and convinces him to don the Falcon persona to inspire the natives to rebel against Red Skull. Who uses the Cosmic Cube on him granting him the ability to correspond with birds. Introduction 1969. Captain America's Partner for 45 YEARS Captain America takes Falcon under his wing (again no pun intended) training Falcon in hand to hand combat for decades.



Now the problem I have is how can a teenager who fought with Cap for years against ordinary Army foes, an occasional Red Skull be light years ahead in skill compared to Falcon who has faced Super villain after Super villain.
Not to mention Hydra and Aim Armies. The way Wilson is written it makes him out to be some dude who can fly that can win an occasional bar-fight.


If you were trained by Bruce Lee for 45 years ( Sliding comic book timescale 10 to 14 years) compared to a 15 year old who had training for 5 years...don't you think the student who had the longer training would at least have skill on par if not close?

The only edge Bucky would have over the Falcon would come from the additional training he recieved to become the Winter Soldier.

Other than that, everything else you've said about the Falcon is 100% correct.

Dude was trained by Rogers and has been fighting super villains for more than a hot minute so even though I take onboard what Tien Long highlighted about other characters, I somehow doubt Elektra would have had her ass handed to her so easily.

[Trident]

I still haven't read the issue but I will today. But I want to point out my primary concern is that Falcon is being played so that Nomad can shine. There's outstandly large difference in taking the primary character through the mud by himself than it is having another character potentially there to upstage and undermine the lead.

Another thing to note is that when Bucky came back he was very much a blank slate. There was no stereotypes to overcome, there were no minor or down right bad showings that needed to be worked around, and there wasn't a large community who already written the character off. Sam Wilison aka The Falcon has all those things against him and instead of taking this opportunity to highlight the outstanding parts of his previous charactersation Rick R. is demonstrating his worse and he is doing it every were Sam is appearing in. Axis has him looking like a total fool, the infinite comic made him seem inferior, and it seems that All-New Captain America will make him seem incapable. Again, I hadn't read the issue but I'm going to and if this does keep up the people who care need to start making nosie. Bloggers, tweeters, and whoever else need to say something because it is an extreme injustice for a writer to use a character in a degrading manner to push a character he created into stardom. Especially if that character holds the amount of history and importance a that comes with being The First Affrican American superheo.

Someone needs to Stand Up for Sam Wilison.

[ed2962]

I thought this issue was ok. It was basically just non-stop action and I been enjoying Stuart's art. Sam's kinda been thrown into an extreme situation so I'd expect him to have a tough time.

On the other hand, I understand Maj and Trident's point...this isn't Sam's first rodeo. If we get to issue 5-6 and he's still being rescued by everyone else, then I'll be disappointed.