Johns' Shazam vs. Morrison"s Captain Marvel

[Outside_85]

Morrison would read better as a story and it would look better.
But Johns would sell better because he's Geoff Johns and he'd have to have drunk himself senseless before he makes stuff that doesnt.

[king of hybrids]

in a shared universe that includes vertigo, wildstorm and darkseid; shazam

for a fawcett-only verse; thunderworld

[Cmbmool]

Morrison would read better as a story and it would look better.
But Johns would sell better because he's Geoff Johns and he'd have to have drunk himself senseless before he makes stuff that doesnt.

Just because Geoff Johns sells better, doesn't mean he gets the character. I mean when he wrote Shazam before, he focused more on Black Adam than Billy Batson.

[Starchild]

It's funny how people want Shazam to be the same 'gee whiz, golly, leave it to beaver' type kid. That behavior is just so outdated in my opinion. This is actually turning into a spite thread, to be honest. Just a reason to bash Johns version of the character.

[dswynne]

It's funny how people want Shazam to be the same 'gee whiz, golly, leave it to beaver' type kid. That behavior is just so outdated in my opinion. This is actually turning into a spite thread, to be honest. Just a reason to bash Johns version of the character.

I think you should give the Johns critics a break. Many of them grew up identifying with Captain Marvel on the simple premise that anyone, especially a kid with a magic word, can become a hero. Very few comic book characters are intended for their audience in that way. Can you say that anyone can be Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman? No; Superman was "born" with powers far above mortal men, Batman is just an eccentric rich guy who uses his wealth to solve crimes, and Wonder Woman was formed into being by the will of gods. On the other hand, Billy Batson was just a street orphan who worked hard to survive his circumstance, and never gave up hope, which caught the eye of a certain wizard, and became a champion to "defend the weak and helpless, and to crush evil wherever [Captain Marvel] find[s] it". I don't know about you, but it is that aspect of the character that made me a enthusiastic fan.

So don't be too harsh on those people who take how the Marvel Family is treated seriously. There is a reason for it, and it's not about being a Geoff Johns basher...

[andersonh1]

And, in an era of darker, more "realistic" heroes, having one kid just be exceptionally nice and good and positive about life because it's the right thing to do is a nice change from the norm. Is it too much to ask for just one old fashioned cheerful, good-hearted, larger than life hero? I wouldn't have thought so.

Just a little thing like Cap calling the Wizard "sir" struck me as refreshing.

[Starchild]

I'll stop being harsh, when they stop being harsh. I've grown tired of it. Thank you very much.

I think you should give the Johns critics a break. Many of them grew up identifying with Captain Marvel on the simple premise that anyone, especially a kid with a magic word, can become a hero. Very few comic book characters are intended for their audience in that way. Can you say that anyone can be Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman? No; Superman was "born" with powers far above mortal men, Batman is just an eccentric rich guy who uses his wealth to solve crimes, and Wonder Woman was formed into being by the will of gods. On the other hand, Billy Batson was just a street orphan who worked hard to survive his circumstance, and never gave up hope, which caught the eye of a certain wizard, and became a champion to "defend the weak and helpless, and to crush evil wherever [Captain Marvel] find[s] it". I don't know about you, but it is that aspect of the character that made me a enthusiastic fan.

So don't be too harsh on those people who take how the Marvel Family is treated seriously. There is a reason for it, and it's not about being a Geoff Johns basher...

[KurtW95]

No, not all kids. I took the warnings against it to heart and never did, so it's hardly universal behavior. But I suppose I'm in the minority on that.

I would hope my kids avoid all of the above. It is possible, after all. In any case, I don't condone such behavior in real life, and I don't enjoy reading about it with teen or under heroes either. I would vote with my dollars and avoid a Shazam series with a more "realistic" or "typical kid" Billy Batson.

I never did it either. And it's horrible to lower the standard for a kid's discipline and wellbeing and let them just "experiment."

[andersonh1]

I never did it either. And it's horrible to lower the standard for a kid's discipline and wellbeing and let them just "experiment."

There are very real and negative consequences to some choices, especially when made at too young an age. I'm not going to assume my children will make the wrong choice no matter what, I'm going to do everything I can to educate them and warn them. And hope that they, like me, listen and avoid harmful substances that can have lifelong effects.

Getting back to Captain Marvel, and the question of whether we're just "bashing" Geoff Johns and Shazam, that's not always the case. I think that there's such a gap between Shazam and Captain Marvel that it's necessary to compare and contrast in order to lay out why we like the one version and not the other. So many of us who loved "Thunderworld" did so because Morrison managed to capture that old magic, that old vibe where the characters delight in being heroes and enjoy what they do. Where they display confidence and positivity rather than arrogance. Where Shazam isn't some creepy old guy and Billy Batson is bright and smart and admirable.

Johns chose to rework the character and go in a more down to earth direction. To me, the changes he made took away the essence of what makes Captain Marvel who he is. A lot of the superficial trappings are still there, but the heart and soul is gone. If you prefer Shazam, that's fine. More power to you. At least for this month, we all got what we want. Shazam is in the New 52, and Captain Marvel got an issue of Multiversity. Everyone should be happy.

[Conway]

It's funny how people want Shazam to be the same 'gee whiz, golly, leave it to beaver' type kid. That behavior is just so outdated in my opinion. This is actually turning into a spite thread, to be honest. Just a reason to bash Johns version of the character.

I said several times I liked Johns's Shazam! story. I think it makes decent story. It's the exact same story as everyone else in the DCU but that doesn't make it bad. I did point out that Johns' other stories have shown weak spots and are so decompressed lately that they don't leave room for future building. While Morrison's stories have become the building blocks for everything that came after them.

As usual I hear way more Morrison bashing about his overly complex ideas, self aggrandizing style, and discouraging dialogue than about Johns. I think in the end Morrison's Captain Marvel would become a classic that sold for years to come, while Johns' Shazam! will be largely forgotten. Much like their Superman stories have been. That isn't Johns bashing that is me voicing an opinion about the lasting quality of Morrison's work.

[dswynne]

I'll stop being harsh, when they stop being harsh. I've grown tired of it. Thank you very much.

If you say, as silly as you are being on this.

[Dataweaver]

I'll stop being harsh, when they stop being harsh. I've grown tired of it. Thank you very much.

If you go in thinking that critics of the New 52 are whining and nostalgic fanboys who refuse to find anything good in the New 52 and who nitpick every little thing, then that’s what you’ll tend to see — even when it isn’t there.

[Starchild]

If you say, as silly as you are being on this.

Not being silly about anything. Just stating an opinion. Don't like it? Then move along. Thank you.

[Starchild]

If you go in thinking that critics of the New 52 are whining and nostalgic fanboys who refuse to find anything good in the New 52 and who nitpick every little thing, then that’s what you’ll tend to see — even when it isn’t there.

Sorry, most of the time. It is there. My sig is how I perceive mosf comic book fans to be like. Hmm sometimes I think I put all fanboys in a box, then sometimes I think it is necessary.

[colonyofcells]

Geoff Johns shazam family is an obvious improvement altho probably needs more fixes. Turning captain marvel into a magician probably was a bit too much since captain marvel already had too many super powers.