Secret Warriors opinions/reminiscing

[weezer17]

Just found out I'm getting the Secret Warriors omnibus for Christmas! I've been wanting to read this series for awhile, since I love Nick Fury and generally enjoy Jonathan Hickman, but wanted to see what everyone else thought.

Any thoughts on Secret Warriors?

A side question, which might be a good way to get a conversation rolling: are the actions of Nick Fury in various series and events in the last decade diminished any by the revelation in Original Sin that spoilers:

Nick Fury had been using life-model decoys in recent years rather than handling missions in person

end of spoilers?

[macicenuke]

I actually just started reading it. Don't like the art. And why does Daisy/Quake look just like Maria Hill? I don't feel like investing time in these other characters either.

[itspopularnowitsucks]

Original Sin makes past stories like Secret Warriors meaningless.

A lot of internal monologue and reminiscing of Fury is just plain stupid, in light of Fury's night jig.

Also don't forget folks like Dum Dum Dugan is also LMD.

LOL.

In other news, I think Secret Warriors is the most unoriginal work from Hickman for Marvel. It seems Hickman is far more interested in Fury and Howling Commando than Bendis's Secret Warriors.
Also the book only ties into S.H.I.E.L.D. series, with no relation to current Avengers/New Avengers unlike FF etc.

[Of Atlantis]

Just found out I'm getting the Secret Warriors omnibus for Christmas! I've been wanting to read this series for awhile, since I love Nick Fury and generally enjoy Jonathan Hickman, but wanted to see what everyone else thought.

Any thoughts on Secret Warriors?[/SPOIL]?

Secret Warriors is one of my favourite runs in comics and some of the best Fury I've ever read. There are some moments that will make your jaw absolutely drop.

A side question, which might be a good way to get a conversation rolling: are the actions of Nick Fury in various series and events in the last decade diminished any by the revelation in Original Sin that spoilers:

Nick Fury had been using life-model decoys in recent years rather than handling missions in person

end of spoilers?

Absolutely. If they needed a swan song for Nick Fury, this should've been the series to do it in. It made this story seem less genuine knowing it was an LMD the entire time. And it made one of the most awesome Nick Fury moments ever mean nothing since it wasn't even him doing it. I'd like to just pretend Original Sin never happened, and assume these were the real Dugen and Fury. I'm sure Marvel weren't even planning on Original Sin at the time so it was always meant to be the real Fury. It reads exponentially better that way.

In other news, I think Secret Warriors is the most unoriginal work from Hickman for Marvel. It seems Hickman is far more interested in Fury and Howling Commando than Bendis's Secret Warriors.
Also the book only ties into S.H.I.E.L.D. series, with no relation to current Avengers/New Avengers unlike FF etc.

To be fair, Secret Warriors came long before Hickman even knew he would be on Avengers/New Avengers. In fact I remember by the end of Secret Warriors, Hickman was just starting Ultimates at the time. I'd much rather have had Secret Warriors tie into SHIELD and then have SHIELD tie into other works.

[Dog]

Maybe I read it wrong, but my impression of Original Sin was that "Fury" has only been LMD's since the Infinity formula was taken out of him in Battle Scars. Was it explicitly stated otherwise somewhere?

[Of Atlantis]

Maybe I read it wrong, but my impression of Original Sin was that "Fury" has only been LMD's since the Infinity formula was taken out of him in Battle Scars. Was it explicitly stated otherwise somewhere?

The way I read it, and I may have read it wrong because i didn't care much for that story, is that Fury had begun using LMD's at an undefined point in the distant past. Anything he did may or may not have been an LMD.

Regardless, that story really ruined Fury's reputation and was a massive retcon to the character's history. Not to mention a really shitty way to write the character out. I mean, they literally tied him to the moon...

[vitruvian]

The way I read it, and I may have read it wrong because i didn't care much for that story, is that Fury had begun using LMD's at an undefined point in the distant past. Anything he did may or may not have been an LMD.

Regardless, that story really ruined Fury's reputation and was a massive retcon to the character's history. Not to mention a really shitty way to write the character out. I mean, they literally tied him to the moon...

He's the shifty spy (anti-)hero version of Doom, with LMDs instead of Doombots as a convenient excuse for anything a later writer decides was out of character. Or Thanos with his varied clones.

And really, though I don't think you can have the Unseen on the Moon retconned to be yet another LMD without getting a bit silly (cosmic forces shouldn't be fooled like that, after all), the possible continued existence of some of his LMDs that don't know they're not the original article leaves open an avenue for old-school Fury appearances.

[Pat Thomas]

Just found out I'm getting the Secret Warriors omnibus for Christmas! I've been wanting to read this series for awhile, since I love Nick Fury and generally enjoy Jonathan Hickman, but wanted to see what everyone else thought.

Any thoughts on Secret Warriors?

A side question, which might be a good way to get a conversation rolling: are the actions of Nick Fury in various series and events in the last decade diminished any by the revelation in Original Sin that spoilers:

Nick Fury had been using life-model decoys in recent years rather than handling missions in person

end of spoilers?

I've got the entire Secret Warriors run in my pile of stuff to read, and I personally don't really give a damn about anything that's been retconned since. As long as the story is
engrossing and I enjoy it, what's happened since shouldn't really matter. Plus, who's to say the current status quo will stay that way? Chances are very slim that the original
Nick Fury will remain chained to the moon. In 10 years, a whole different group of people with a different vision could be working at Marvel, and change everything being done
now. That doesn't mean the stories are any less "real" or "important". They are real if you can open them up and read them, and that's all you need to concern yourself with.

[Of Atlantis]

He's the shifty spy (anti-)hero version of Doom, with LMDs instead of Doombots as a convenient excuse for anything a later writer decides was out of character. Or Thanos with his varied clones.

And really, though I don't think you can have the Unseen on the Moon retconned to be yet another LMD without getting a bit silly (cosmic forces shouldn't be fooled like that, after all), the possible continued existence of some of his LMDs that don't know they're not the original article leaves open an avenue for old-school Fury appearances.

It does, but it isn't the same. It would just lack a certain genuine aspect to the character's representation knowing it isn't them.

It just seemed like that whole story was a definitive dot on an exclamation point after the fact we won't be seeing Sr. for a long while, at least in his traditional role.

I've got the entire Secret Warriors run in my pile of stuff to read, and I personally don't really give a damn about anything that's been retconned since. As long as the story is
engrossing and I enjoy it, what's happened since shouldn't really matter. Plus, who's to say the current status quo will stay that way? Chances are very slim that the original
Nick Fury will remain chained to the moon. In 10 years, a whole different group of people with a different vision could be working at Marvel, and change everything being done
now. That doesn't mean the stories are any less "real" or "important". They are real if you can open them up and read them, and that's all you need to concern yourself with.

As far as the direction seems to be headed, we likely won't be seeing Fury Sr. very much for a while, and if we will it'll be in his new role as "The Unseen". And if the line wide branding of the juggernaut that is Marvel/Disney is any indication, Fury Jr. is the face of Nick Fury now for the foreseeable future.

I don't see how retconning a character's accomplishments out of existence can't have any affect on past stories. It's not really a feeling you control. Granted, it never once hindered my enjoyment of Secret Warriors. I still look back and remember it being one of the best books I've read. But in regards to the character's accomplishments, it carries far less weight now knowing it may not have been him.

Just enjoy Secret Warriors for what it is, OP. It's a great book.

[Expletive Deleted]

There were a few too many superfluous conspiracies and unnecessary dangling mysteries, but ultimately it was a lot of fun. And, really, that's what's important.

[vitruvian]

It does, but it isn't the same. It would just lack a certain genuine aspect to the character's representation knowing it isn't them.

It just seemed like that whole story was a definitive dot on an exclamation point after the fact we won't be seeing Sr. for a long while, at least in his traditional role.



As far as the direction seems to be headed, we likely won't be seeing Fury Sr. very much for a while, and if we will it'll be in his new role as "The Unseen". And if the line wide branding of the juggernaut that is Marvel/Disney is any indication, Fury Jr. is the face of Nick Fury now for the foreseeable future.

I don't see how retconning a character's accomplishments out of existence can't have any affect on past stories. It's not really a feeling you control. Granted, it never once hindered my enjoyment of Secret Warriors. I still look back and remember it being one of the best books I've read. But in regards to the character's accomplishments, it carries far less weight now knowing it may not have been him.

Just enjoy Secret Warriors for what it is, OP. It's a great book.

Would have been funny, though, if the retcon included not just Dum Dum, but Nick himself getting permanently replaced by one of his LMDs ages and ages ago, maybe before the FF went up in their rocket flight. And the prime Nick Fury LMD could still have become the Unseen; after all, if an android can be a replacement Herald of Galactus, surely one can be a replacement Watcher... yeah, I know I was just singing a different tune, but hey, Gabriel the Air Walker popped into my head, and I think the story might have been better if it had just gone full on gonzo.

[Rincewind]

I just read Original Sin and it explicitly states that Nick had the rapid aging just a few weeks before the story began.

And it's not like the LMD had never been used as a retcon before. When the Punisher 'killed' Nick in the 90's, it was later revealed to be an LMD. And during the Nick Fury vs. SHIELD mini series in the 80's, it was revealed that some of the prior appearances of Nick were an LMD.

[Of Atlantis]

And it's not like the LMD had never been used as a retcon before. When the Punisher 'killed' Nick in the 90's, it was later revealed to be an LMD. And during the Nick Fury vs. SHIELD mini series in the 80's, it was revealed that some of the prior appearances of Nick were an LMD.

That's why I hinge on the fact that Nick Fury in Secret Warriors was the real deal, even though he might not have been. I'd rather it be the real him.

Would have been funny, though, if the retcon included not just Dum Dum, but Nick himself getting permanently replaced by one of his LMDs ages and ages ago, maybe before the FF went up in their rocket flight. And the prime Nick Fury LMD could still have become the Unseen; after all, if an android can be a replacement Herald of Galactus, surely one can be a replacement Watcher... yeah, I know I was just singing a different tune, but hey, Gabriel the Air Walker popped into my head, and I think the story might have been better if it had just gone full on gonzo.

When was Dugan replaced exactly? I really didn't think that retcon was necessary. I wonder if other Howling Commandos were actually replaced as well.

[macicenuke]

Yeah, man. I'm gonna go with using LMDs once the Infinity formula ran out. Reads better that way. Otherwise Fury's entire history is total bullshit. I like movie Fury. A lot. But he's nothing like 616 Fury. I don't get why Marvel is forcing their regular universe to match the cinematic universe. It should be the other way around.

[Hariel0079]

I hope that Secret Warriors return in the fallout of Secret Wars