What Do You Think of the Finchs' Run So Far?

[Outside_85]

I might be able to support this opinion if fans/readers had actually voted for the recipients of that reward but it was chosen by the opinion of one organization which may have personal high opinions of Azzarello's work.

One organization thats most people are confident actually know what they are talking about when they hand out their awards.

[wagthedog]

One organization thats most people are confident actually know what they are talking about when they hand out their awards.

So if Marisa Tomei wins an academy award for My Cousin Vinny (which is a great movie), that validates her win because of the organization? Sorry, but some consider it a blunder beyond belief when she won the award.

Not sure why we are gearing this thread towards winners of awards as if to validate ones opinion.

[Dr. Poison]

One organization thats most people are confident actually know what they are talking about when they hand out their awards.

I think you may be placing a little too much faith in your assessment that most people feel this way. I do think that most of the people that follow this organization probably feel this way but I think less and less people these days have faith in award show/website organizations as they are businesses that rely on views/hits and in order to keep getting those views/hits, sometimes you have to either stay trendy or rock the boat a little.

[brettc1]

At the risk of arousing Gaelforce's ire, I am going to suggest that part of the problem here might belong to Azzarello.

Here me out. One of the things that has turned folks off is hearing Diana complain about all the things going wrong in her world - for example, killing Ares, her mentor. Instinctively we think of this as being whiny because hey, that was over a year ago! Move on, D!

Except, because of the glacial speed of Azzarello's run, it was not over a year ago for Diana. In fact it is likely only weeks since she stabbed him to death and watched him bleed out in front of her. So maybe Meredith is simply trying to give a realistic perspective on what are for Diana not only traumatic but very recent events.

Just a thought.

[dimo1]

And maybe readers should stop being overly demanding everytime their favourite character is not written or drawn as they would love to see it. You don't like the Finch's run, wait a bit and a nrw team will take over, or try to get the witing job yourself.

I gave it 3 stars, love the art, but I am biased since I have loved Finch since he took over Cyberforce from Silvestri, his wife's writing is avarage sofar, but after two issue it is a bit prematurely to tell.

[Outside_85]

So if Marisa Tomei wins an academy award for My Cousin Vinny (which is a great movie), that validates her win because of the organization? Sorry, but some consider it a blunder beyond belief when she won the award.

Not sure why we are gearing this thread towards winners of awards as if to validate ones opinion.

My point was that organizations like these are supposed to be impartial, but still have a set of rules they grade the performance on.
It's people who can look past whenever they personally like whats going on and recognize the achievements the work actually does. Hence why LotR actually got awards from an crowd thats snubbed it's nose at every other fantasy movie.

I think you may be placing a little too much faith in your assessment that most people feel this way.

I do think that most of the people that follow this organization probably feel this way but I think less and less people these days have faith in award show/website organizations as they are businesses that rely on views/hits and in order to keep getting those views/hits, sometimes you have to either stay trendy or rock the boat a little.

I am not looking at what the majority of readers think or feel in this regard. If that was the case people like Geoff Johns would have won 2 dozen Eisners by now and Michael Bay would be standing with Oscars for Transformers.

Plus, Oscars and Eisners aren't a separate 'buisness' as such. People who vote are members of the industry they represent, so there isn't any gain for these people to vote in a certain way. So Eisners at least is the industry saying: "This is a good book, this is a good writer, this is a good artist and so on..." It's professionals rating professionals, and professionals argue such things on different terms than the general audience.

[Darius]

Is this any different than Azzarello fans claiming to have never liked WW until the Azzarello run? Ecen before the Finches took over there were people lamenting how unreadable Diana's stories would become.

No different at all ... As I've stated in several other posts.

[Darius]

At the risk of arousing Gaelforce's ire, I am going to suggest that part of the problem here might belong to Azzarello.

Here me out. One of the things that has turned folks off is hearing Diana complain about all the things going wrong in her world - for example, killing Ares, her mentor. Instinctively we think of this as being whiny because hey, that was over a year ago! Move on, D!

Except, because of the glacial speed of Azzarello's run, it was not over a year ago for Diana. In fact it is likely only weeks since she stabbed him to death and watched him bleed out in front of her. So maybe Meredith is simply trying to give a realistic perspective on what are for Diana not only traumatic but very recent events.

Just a thought.

But no I don't blame Azzarello for Meredith's inexperience. WW has had many of these same issues in other runs and the writers managed to keep away from having her sad-baby-face into a teddy bear. Meredith could easily have chosen to restore Hippolyta, Azzarello left that up in the air, which would have changed the dynamic of WW altogether. This angsty Diana is all on Meredith.

[brettc1]

And maybe readers should stop being overly demanding everytime their favourite character is not written or drawn as they would love to see it. You don't like the Finch's run, wait a bit and a nrw team will take over, or try to get the writing job yourself.

No, that's not right. The question is whether you like the run and how you rate it. People should be demanding as they think their hard earned money deserves. Otherwise you might as well just have have Excellent, Very Good and Average, and the let those who don't enjoy it have no say at all.

[brettc1]

I guess is should have bolded "part of the problem"

[Gaelforce]

To clarify:

1. I gave Azzarello's run a 'C' because there were some things I liked about it; the reinvention of the gods and, most importantly, Diana's voice and personality. I didn't like the Amazons, Themyscira, her inability to stand on her own two feet without Orion/Hephaestus/Hermes saving the day, the lack of any mortals in her supporting cast, the length of the story, etc. However, her personality is, to me, one of the more important aspects, so it carries more weight.

2. I loved Chiang's art, which also boosted my rating up. It's stylized and different and fits well (for me) with Azzarello's writing. She came across as strong, independent and confident, particularly in her stances. There weren't cleavage shots or hip-thrust-to-the-side with the spine curved pics.

3. I try to form an opinion of each run independently. My collection goes back (unbroken run) to around 170 or so of the first volume, so I'm sticking around regardless and prefer to form opinions based on more than two issues. I'm pretty sure that 'C' was based on three years, not two issues (but I could be wrong). I do know it was after a bit more than what we've seen of the Finches, though

4. I am not a fan of cheesecake and I have always hated the way David Finch draws Diana (and women in general). It strikes some sort of a chord in me to see oversexualized, over endowed women with ridiculously curved spines and faces that look 12-15 years old. I think it's just a gut reaction that turns me off to Finch's style completely, and the promo poster for this run didn't help. As I pointed out in another post somewhere, I used to fight sword and board in the SCA, and that curved spine, feet crossed, shield pulled back to reveal the chest shot is just...wrong.

5. I was perfectly willing to give Meredith a chance and was looking forward to a change of pace from Azzarello's story, especially seeing Diana return to the 'outside world' and not be so self-contained. However, I find the way she writes Diana's personality to be atrocious. Yes, friends unload to friends, but so far in two issues (and again, this may change and improve) all there has been is whining, snapping, angry Diana with absolutely nothing to balance this, and it completely ignores all that came before. Diana just spent three years finding her footing, making a great speech at the end of Azzarello's run where she defines herself. She is (and should be) strong and confident but instead, turns to the guy who is in love with his would-be-assassin, who divides his time between Atlantis, his girlfriend, and the JL and, instead of holding a mature conversation about how he manages it, she sounds like she's completely falling apart. This is echoed by her snapping at Superman. It comes across as 'well, the men handle it just fine, but ask a woman to do it and they just can't deal.'

6. The story is just...meh. It ignores what came before it for way too many 'huh?' moments (where did this council come from? why is Hippolyta stone again? and now dead again? why would Diana not know about the birds who were at the beck and call of her mentor and why wouldn't they go to their mentor instead of the place where she never goes, according to that same council?) I'm tired of the man hating Amazons, and I'm tired of losing Hippolyta whose mother/daughter relationship was one of the things I loved about the book (and I hated it in Azz's run, too).

In short, I despise the artistic style and I don't see any sign of the Diana that I love. She came to grips with her many roles in life several issues ago, so this is just a huge step backwards, imo. Whereas I loved Chiang's art, I hate Finch's, and, so far, there are too many gaps and holes in Meredith's story for me to like it. This last part may change as we see more, but y'all asked for an opinion of just the first two issues...

[Gaelforce]

And speaking as a mod, I again stress that comparisons and discussions of Azzarello in relation to Finch is fine. The only issue is when folks just start tearing into Azzarello completely independent of the Finch run

[Darius]

I guess is should have bolded "part of the problem"

Still disagree since he's not the reason her writing is unpolished. I like the plot she's setting up, putting Diana in an impossible situation of conflicting responsibilities and during an emotionally difficult time. It's the dialogue choices she's making that make this poorly written ... "Vegetative Injustice" ... Seriously? The art is jarring to me as well, Finch is a fine artist, but he draws a rather generic and young face in almost every female character. Visually I am struggling to see WW in his art ... I see pouty/angsty Wonder Girl so far.

[wagthedog]

My point was that organizations like these are supposed to be impartial, but still have a set of rules they grade the performance on.
It's people who can look past whenever they personally like whats going on and recognize the achievements the work actually does. Hence why LotR actually got awards from an crowd thats snubbed it's nose at every other fantasy movie.

These organizations are far from being impartial. If that was the case, the millions of dollars that studios spend in trying to get their movies nominated wouldn't happen. But it does and the intense lobbying they do of the actual voters on the academy award. There have been great performances that the academy never gave a thought to because it wasn't lobbied directly for a nomination.

While the money spent will never be like what the movies do, I am thinking the process for these Eisner awards or whatever would be similar. I still don't know and don't care who has won an Eisner.

[cranger]

I feel it is average so far. The writing is fine, I do not feel lost at all, and the dialogue and plot both seem a good fit for Wonder Woman at the moment. Nothing spectacular but nothing that makes me want to stop reading.

The art is where I am more mixed in my feelings. On one hand it can look really appealing and I think does well at displaying the body language of Wonder Woman, but sometimes looks rough although that may just be his style.

If there was one improvement had to pick it is that I want the story and art to fit together better. It seems the writer has this interesting plot in the works and the artist has these incredible scenes in mind, but following them from page to page sometimes feels like they could transition better or be told in a better way.