Thread Drift: The Male Physique in Comics and Other Media

[Holt]

I'll just reiterate what someone said that generally, the idealized way men are drawn in comics is not for the consumption of women or gay men in the way that the idealized depictions of women are meant for the consumption of men. I'd say especially nowadays that's even more obvious since the popular look is often a more feminine or metrosexual vibe. Remember all those dudes whining about Robert Pattinson and how Twilight made vampires totally gay and wimpy but then actual girls and women ate that stuff up? By and large the whole macho, roided up psychopath physique many heroes have simply isn't something that a lot of women find interesting or appealing.



There are characters like Gambit who fit that mold but if appealing to women in the same way female characters appeal to men was a priority, we'd be seeing a lot more of that or New 52 Lobo and a lot less Jim Lee Batmen.

[Guest_1001]

I'll just reiterate what someone said that generally, the idealized way men are drawn in comics is not for the consumption of women or gay men in the way that the idealized depictions of women are meant for the consumption of men. I'd say especially nowadays that's even more obvious since the popular look is often a more feminine or metrosexual vibe. Remember all those dudes whining about Robert Pattinson and how Twilight made vampires totally gay and wimpy but then actual girls and women ate that stuff up? By and large the whole macho, roided up psychopath physique many heroes have simply isn't something that a lot of women find interesting or appealing.



There are characters like Gambit who fit that mold but if appealing to women in the same way female characters appeal to men was a priority, we'd be seeing a lot more of that or New 52 and a lot less Jim Lee Batmen.

Thanks, I've been waiting for an opportunity to use this:



Also note the irony of that comic; an attractive female character lecturing an overweight bald man on insecurities over body image. I'd also like to remind you that I have had body image issues over unrealistically-attractive male characters, so I find the "male power fantasy" argument to be complete garbage.

If you'd like some facts on the subject, here's an article from the Guardian, another from The Courier and an infographic about how eating disorders affect men.

[Nyssane]

Look at the poses of the men on those Romance covers and then look at the poses of the men on comic books. Not much similarity there, is there?

Many women like muscular men. Many women like lean men. They have varied tastes, which is more than we can generalize for straight men who are only interested in the one body type comic books have to offer for female characters.

[Guest_1001]

You're moving the goalposts. The point was "muscular men = male power fantasy".

Somehow, I knew this thread would devolve into "but women have it worse" arguments. That always seems to be the case; men can't talk about issues that affect them without others jumping in to say how hard women have it (and it should be noted, talking about sexualised women is drifting off-topic).

I've said my piece, so the thread can continue without me.

[Holt]

Look at the poses of the men on those Romance covers and then look at the poses of the men on comic books. Not much similarity there, is there?

Bingo. They're generally in more submissive or emotionally open poses. They aren't grunting snarling tough guys punching muggers.

[Lee Stone]

I'll just reiterate what someone said that generally, the idealized way men are drawn in comics is not for the consumption of women or gay men in the way that the idealized depictions of women are meant for the consumption of men. I'd say especially nowadays that's even more obvious since the popular look is often a more feminine or metrosexual vibe. Remember all those dudes whining about Robert Pattinson and how Twilight made vampires totally gay and wimpy but then actual girls and women ate that stuff up? By and large the whole macho, roided up psychopath physique many heroes have simply isn't something that a lot of women find interesting or appealing.



There are characters like Gambit who fit that mold but if appealing to women in the same way female characters appeal to men was a priority, we'd be seeing a lot more of that or New 52 and a lot less Jim Lee Batmen.

That is a perfect example.

Howabout we get a cover where a powerful Black Widow, fully clothed with lots of cross-hatching shadowing hiding her lower half while a shirtless Hawkeye prominently stands to the side in an s-shape, looking at his bow with a look of lucidity in his face.

[Lee Stone]

Thanks, I've been waiting for an opportunity to use this:



Also note the irony of that comic; an attractive female character lecturing an overweight bald man on insecurities over body image. I'd also like to remind you that I have had body image issues over unrealistically-attractive male characters, so I find the "male power fantasy" argument to be complete garbage.

If you'd like some facts on the subject, here's an article from the Guardian, another from The Courier and an infographic about how eating disorders affect men.

Those aren't male power fantasies. You'll notice that on the majority of those, the head or eyes are not visible.
That makes a difference.

And then there's the poses and the expressions.

They all look like they're in heat. Not like they're trying to be tough.

In comics we get tough guys with girls in heat.

As an aside... I remember the last time this topic came up, some were defending the comics portrayal of power-men and sexualized-women, saying that if women can have beefcake in romance novels then comics can pander with cheesecake.

[Star_Jammer]

Look at the poses of the men on those Romance covers and then look at the poses of the men on comic books. Not much similarity there, is there?

Many women like muscular men. Many women like lean men. They have varied tastes, which is more than we can generalize for straight men who are only interested in the one body type comic books have to offer for female characters.

I guess one could say (straight) men aren't picky? Bwahahaha.

[Trident]

Hmmm it does seem to be a sorta attack on men going on now of days. It's also some new stereotype forming that if you find certain things appealing you are either some kind of chavunist or incapable of having an opinion do to years of brainwashing.

In reality....people need to stop being so sensitive. If you find something offensive that isn't trying to be or just generally don't like something the first step would be don't buy it.

[Nipower888]

Hmmm it does seem to be and sorta attack on men going on now of days. It's also kinda some new stereotype forming that if you find certain things appealing you are either some kind of chavunist or incapable of having an opinion do to years of brainwashing.

In reality....people need to stop being so sensitive. If you find something offensive that isn't trying to be or just generally don't like something the first step would be don't buy it.

What? I'm confused

[Venomous Mask]

Bingo. They're generally in more submissive or emotionally open poses. They aren't grunting snarling tough guys punching muggers.

The images on the covers of the The Goblin King, To Tame a Highland Warrior, Fierce in Fur and Archangel's Storm could easily have been made into mainstream comic book covers with no problem. Also, the cover of Deliciously Wicked shows anything but male submissiveness.

[Of Atlantis]

Hmmm it does seem to be a sorta attack on men going on now of days. It's also some new stereotype forming that if you find certain things appealing you are either some kind of chavunist or incapable of having an opinion do to years of brainwashing.

In reality....people need to stop being so sensitive. If you find something offensive that isn't trying to be or just generally don't like something the first step would be don't buy it.

Agreed. Nowadays, I tend to be careful with what I say in order not to offend anyone by accident, but I really shouldn't have to. Everyone's so defensive and overanalyzes things. It's actually becoming more difficult to have an actual discussion without it turning into an aggressive debate.

I think in regards to comics, males usually don't take offense to the fact that male superheroes are often more muscular than them or have a bulge that could take out someone's eye, and that's why it's so rarely a topic of discussion or taken seriously when it is.

[mugiwara]

Yeah, like the strawman from shorpacked, men would be totally unconfortable if Batman looked like this.

Oh wait...
terry.jpg

[gurkle]

One thing I will add is that the way female characters are traditionally drawn is not just about appealing to guys. It's also about appealing to female readers. Comics aimed mostly at girls - like Katy Keene or Millie the Model - had the same impossible figures and cheesecake poses that we see in superhero comics. Partly because the artists were men who liked to draw women that way, but also for the same reason young girls like Barbie dolls.

So when superhero teams started incorporating a token female member, like the Fantastic Four did, they were drawn and characterized in a way that would appeal to girls. And the perception was, based on the comics they bought, that girls liked to see pretty heroines while guys were more interested in freakish-looking characters like the Thing. That's a generalization, of course, but the creators believed it. Which is why the early Marvel teams have guys who are all freakish in some way while the girl always looks pretty, even when she uses her powers (Jean Grey, Sue Storm). It was pandering to what Lee and Kirby thought girls wanted - and to be fair to them, they both had a lot of experience making comics that girls wanted to buy.

Now, as the comic audience grew older and even more male, the way women were drawn became more heavily sexualized and aimed at men. There's no question about that. I'm just saying that this basic type of female character - model-pretty, kind of passive in her powers - isn't just to be blamed on male tastes, or at least it wasn't originally. It's like the fact that Betty and Veronica are in bikinis all the time isn't just for boy readers, but for girl readers as well.

[Trident]

Agreed. Nowadays, I tend to be careful with what I say in order not to offend anyone by accident, but I really shouldn't have to. Everyone's so defensive and overanalyzes things. It's actually becoming more difficult to have an actual discussion without it turning into an aggressive debate.

I think in regards to comics, males usually don't take offense to the fact that male superheroes are often more muscular than them or have a bulge that could take out someone's eye, and that's why it's so rarely a topic of discussion or taken seriously when it is.

I agree! It's to the point now we're it just seems that a group of people have to much time on their hands so they search out various "injustices" in the world. And those who dsre to only agre with them to a certain point or who disagree entirely are uncultured swine who dare not even open their mouths. It would be funny to talk about if it hadn't gotten to a point were it's turning into the norm for American culture.

"Welcome to America home of the Free and the Brave" is now "Welecome to America home of the Overweight and the UltraSenstive".