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  1. #9316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Um, actually the writer of Convergence: Booster Gold isn't some "other creator" is a Superman writer: our "beloved" Dan Jurgens.
    I knew that, I understood what you were getting at. This explains so many things. Tell the truth, this kind of stuff helps me move on.

    I'm somewhat proud of myself in that Clark and Diana's relationship wasn't enough for me to enjoy the stories. Oh yeah, Supes was dating Wondy. But there was just too much stupidity surrounding the character, exactly as it did pre-flashpoint.
    Last edited by dumbduck; 08-18-2016 at 01:21 PM.

  2. #9317
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    I'm somewhat proud of myself in that Clark and Diana's relationship wasn't enough for me to enjoy the stories. Oh yeah, Supes was dating Wondy. But there was just too much stupidity surrounding the character, exactly as it did pre-flashpoint.
    They don't get it like us. The world isn't ready for SM/WW.
    Last edited by Last Son of Krypton; 08-18-2016 at 01:51 PM.

  3. #9318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    They don't get it like us. The world isn't ready for SM/WW.
    With every pathetically hollow 'poke' against 52 Supes, which I can counter by flooding the thread with scenes that counter their accusations, it's becoming clear that Clark had to die because he was dating Diana. It's a double sin, he dared date Wonder Woman and he dared not date Lois Lane. Dating Diana was the 'kiss of death', so to say. It's not the fault of the *character* Wonder Woman, but of a huge part of the fandoms and creators surrounding these characters.

    I really wish now that DC had organically transitioned into Clark dating Lois. Imagine Lois, the seeker of Truth, the fighter for the little man, paired with 52 Clark, the champion of the opressed. In these times of Trump and Co. People would have eaten it up with doughnuts for dessert.

    Instead, since he was dating Diana, Clark was flooded by poison. Many times by people who oppose Trump and Co. What a waste.

  4. #9319
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    With every pathetically hollow 'poke' against 52 Supes, which I can counter by flooding the thread with scenes that counter their accusations, it's becoming clear that Clark had to die because he was dating Diana. It's a double sin, he dared date Wonder Woman and he dared not date Lois Lane. Dating Diana was the 'kiss of death', so to say. It's not the fault of the *character* Wonder Woman, but of a huge part of the fandoms and creators surrounding these characters.

    I really wish now that DC had organically transitioned into Clark dating Lois. Imagine Lois, the seeker of Truth, the fighter for the little man, paired with 52 Clark, the champion of the opressed. In these times of Trump and Co. People would have eaten it up with doughnuts for dessert.

    Instead, since he was dating Diana, Clark was flooded by poison. Many times by people who oppose Trump and Co. What a waste.
    They would kill him even though he was dating Lois just to make room for the older version with the kid.
    The reason for the new status-quo has more to do with the little boy and DC's attempt to synergize with tv/movies (NuSuperman discovers he's going to die coincidentally just a week after he dies in the movies) than who he's dating.
    Last edited by Last Son of Krypton; 08-18-2016 at 02:27 PM.

  5. #9320
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssupes View Post
    I know this is very unlikely, but would you guys be in favor of an out of continuity book about superman and wonder woman and their relationship? I only ask due to developments in other companies and within DC before they decided to throw the baby out with the bath water.
    I've been a supporter of the idea of a two-Earth system for a long time now. The main line, which focuses more on the classic tropes (at least classic in the post-Crisis sense), and a secondary smaller line for more out-of-the-box, modernized ideas. If Rebirth actually succeeds in the realm of getting the main line straightened out and steady, maybe that'd be a possibility eventually. Not in the upcoming two years, but maybe after. Marvel had a great idea with the Ultimate line. They ran it into the ground and ruined it on a narrative level, but that doesn't change the fact the idea was sound and was quite successful for some time before simple bad writing ruined it.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 08-18-2016 at 02:36 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  6. #9321
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    With every pathetically hollow 'poke' against 52 Supes, which I can counter by flooding the thread with scenes that counter their accusations, it's becoming clear that Clark had to die because he was dating Diana. It's a double sin, he dared date Wonder Woman and he dared not date Lois Lane. Dating Diana was the 'kiss of death', so to say. It's not the fault of the *character* Wonder Woman, but of a huge part of the fandoms and creators surrounding these characters.

    I really wish now that DC had organically transitioned into Clark dating Lois. Imagine Lois, the seeker of Truth, the fighter for the little man, paired with 52 Clark, the champion of the opressed. In these times of Trump and Co. People would have eaten it up with doughnuts for dessert.

    Instead, since he was dating Diana, Clark was flooded by poison. Many times by people who oppose Trump and Co. What a waste.
    Wrong thread. Look ultimately most here love SMWW and whether creators care or not does not mean we stop. If that is what you want then please take it to another thread because I for one don't appreciate anyone calling Diana poison when it clearly was the fault of editorial who dragged the book into Superman crossovers, not WW ones and took away from Diana in her own shared title and writers like Tomasi (and Yang) who wrote Clark poorly and who clearly struggled to write a power couple as seen how she was constantly short changed in arcs like Doomed and Savage Dawn etc.

    If Superman writers cannot accommodate a powerful woman Clark's equal in a story then better they don't write SMWW and stick to Superman where he gets all the glory and takes the stage by himself for the Superman fandom to be happy. Fans like me will be pretty happy if we get the odd elseworld where Diana is written as his equal and or to just use our own imaginations etc in art and fic.
    Last edited by hellacre; 08-18-2016 at 03:38 PM.

  7. #9322
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    Wrong thread. Look ultimately we here love SMWW and whether creators care or not does not mean we stop. If that is what you want then please take it to another thread because I for one don't appreciate anyone calling Diana poison when it clearly was the fault of editorial who dragged the book into Superman crossovers, not WW ones and took away from Diana in her own shared title and writers like Tomasi and Yang who wrote Clark poorly.
    Not Diana. I'm sorry, I didn't express myself well enough. As I said, "It's not the fault of the *character* Wonder Woman, but of a huge part of the fandoms and creators surrounding these characters."


    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    I really wish now that DC had organically transitioned into Clark dating Lois. Imagine Lois, the seeker of Truth, the fighter for the little man, paired with 52 Clark, the champion of the opressed.
    I'm sorry. You're right, this is not the thread for this, I'm sorry. I'm stopping right now. This comment came from a wish that Clark had lived after all, even if it meant he transitioned into dating Lois.
    Last edited by dumbduck; 08-18-2016 at 03:40 PM.

  8. #9323
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    They don't get it like us. The world isn't ready for SM/WW.
    You are right. IMO only Soule got it. I don't like when writers write male characters like idiots either to make WW superior because they feel they have to undermine a male to prop a female any more than making the female a plot device or just window dressing. The concept of a power couple is two equals...balancing each other....shared strengths and weakness are explored...complimenting each other and growing together. It means sharing the stage and sometimes one might be better at something than the other. It means when there is a battle as a writer you think of creative ways to make them both work in tandem. They can do it for Bats and Supes. Why not her and Clark? Is it easier for two men? They had myth and science and they botched it.
    Last edited by hellacre; 08-18-2016 at 03:48 PM.

  9. #9324
    Extraordinary Member LoveStar's Avatar
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    Nothing has really made a difference as far as the fandom following. It's increasing by large still. Action's and WW new 52 subtle/not so subtle dig(s) didn't work given action 960 panels mostly seen on hashtags are the panels of new/old Superman and Wonder Woman with the caption or use of the power couple hashtag. It's kind of awkward though knowing that's not the status quo but telling. LOL Wonder Woman rebirth still not clicking with me. The origin rehash isn't anything special neither is the present day story. It all seems dull and baseless.

    But anyway, as said the interest for SMWW is increasing regardless. I really like this short fan made video and it's quite popular: https://instagram.com/p/BIjO8Y8AYCO/

  10. #9325
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    Not Diana. I'm sorry, I didn't express myself well enough. As I said, "It's not the fault of the *character* Wonder Woman, but of a huge part of the fandoms and creators surrounding these characters."




    I'm sorry. You're right, this is not the thread for this, I'm sorry. I'm stopping right now. This comment came from a wish that Clark had lived after all, even if it meant he transitioned into dating Lois.
    Fandoms who all have their own agenda. And I get you wished new 52 Clark lived but if that is the reason he needed to live just to be defined by a love interest then Superman hasn't really gotten better than pre new 52.

  11. #9326
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    Fandoms who all have their own agenda. And I get you wished new 52 Clark lived but if that is the reason he needed to live just to be defined by a love interest then Superman hasn't really gotten better than pre new 52.
    There's no smiley to show how embarrassed I'm at this moment. Of course. If the price for Clark to live is that his personality, his love, be changed to fit a status quo, then he'd not be a character anymore, but a caricature.

  12. #9327
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssupes View Post
    I know this is very unlikely, but would you guys be in favor of an out of continuity book about superman and wonder woman and their relationship? I only ask due to developments in other companies and within DC before they decided to throw the baby out with the bath water.
    Well it prob will be the only SM or WW book I would read once DK3 is over since after this stunt pulled by DC...I am not interested in their current direction. I happily bought pre new 52 SM and WW and JL stuff when they were not even a couple because there was history and some sense of continuity and a sense of an organic relationship but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth the way DC are handling Rebirth. I don't care for this Superman and I don't care for this Wonder Woman. The WW who cared for pre new 52 Superman, like new 52 WW, is dead. These characters are strangers to me and no amount of crappy merging gimmick is going to make me accept this sad excuse to dump the new 52 for old canon. Rebirth SM/WW relationship is forced and disingenuous and I have 0 interest in it.

    The real question with a SMWW book is who would write it. I know who I don't want near it.
    Last edited by hellacre; 08-18-2016 at 05:32 PM.

  13. #9328
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    There's no smiley to show how embarrassed I'm at this moment. Of course. If the price for Clark to live is that his personality, his love, be changed to fit a status quo, then he'd not be a character anymore, but a caricature.
    Exactly. This is a huge issue affecting SM that DC needs to stop. If anyone picked up Aug's Mad Magazine...well they savaged BM v SM and SM got mocked mainly based on his attitude towards his heroics and how it ties into his love interest. It's hilarious but unfortunately true.

  14. #9329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I've been a supporter of the idea of a two-Earth system for a long time now. The main line, which focuses more on the classic tropes (at least classic in the post-Crisis sense), and a secondary smaller line for more out-of-the-box, modernized ideas. If Rebirth actually succeeds in the realm of getting the main line straightened out and steady, maybe that'd be a possibility eventually. Not in the upcoming two years, but maybe after. Marvel had a great idea with the Ultimate line. They ran it into the ground and ruined it on a narrative level, but that doesn't change the fact the idea was sound and was quite successful for some time before simple bad writing ruined it.
    I share that attitude, but in order for that to happen, DC/WB has to change their way of doing things, possibly even who is charge. The heads operate on a reactionary basis. They waited until Marvel started showing something successful and them did a half-assed aping.
    Then right now, all that matters to the heads at DC is likely going to be that the Ultimate Marvel Universe failed and that Marvel isnt using it against them in the competition.

    @dumbduck the decision to scapegoat characters is something DC has been doing for a long time. For most people, it takes until a character you care about ends up being the one that bites the dust. For me, DC did it twice with the Golden Age murders I'm Infinite Crisis, and before that with having a guy'said pregnant wife murdered and then set on fire and I came to the realization that personally, I don't want to follow the sick twisted logic that the higher ups at DC have, even though it wasn't my character who was getting targeted. That is what DC does, and some of the same people who approved of it still run the scenes. I don't trust them. Somebody has to get scapegoated by them, and some will most likely continue to do so with other characters, just give it time. If something really offends you with a publisher, don't buy their books. I have done it on numerous occasions, and right now, there is Dark Knight 3. That Superman hasn't had **** dumped on him like the othersame in the series, and if he and/or that Batman die, it will be meaningful in the context of that story, he won't have some convenient replacement, or necessarily get anything on a silver platter either. If you don't want DK3, that is fine. You don't have to, but they treat Superman of that universe way better than they have, and he does have some things in common with the New52 character.

  15. #9330
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Anyway people still love and appreciate them despite what DC are doing.






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