Batman vs T-800 (Terminator)

[Kensei]

Some key lines from "Batman Begins"-

Lucius Fox showing Bruce all the gadgets and gear: "As far as I'm concerned, all of this is your's anyway."

And at the end, Rutger Hauer calls Bruce and says something to the effect of "What makes you think you can run Wayne Enterprises?" and Bruce replies, "Well, the fact that I'm the owner." He's given Lucius the CEO position but not the ownership.

[Guy1]

Anyways, as to the debate, the idea that Wayne/Batman didn't use smarts in the DK Trilogy is just ridiculous. But alas, I know I cant win that one as the Bale Batman hate is just ridiculously strong on this forum. I guess the movies got too popular/successful/mainstream to be regarded as cool on here.

That's enough of that, from both ends.

So, why not tell us why you think he could win and or any ideas for the fight?

[The Transient Guest]

Awww.....anyways.

Bale was pretty good at at least the sneaking part of being Batman so I'm assuming that the Terminator is following his standard protocol of looking up a name in the phone book and killing everyone with that name. So by the time Batman gets wind of the serial killer he's going to pretty easily figure out the name game and put measures out there to alert as soon as any of the remaining named are maimed. Now against people with guns, which the Terminator I'm assuming will have since he's following his MO, Bruce is going to keep a ranged game of his own probably either starting off with the knock out ninja star batarangs or by hooking the Terminator and trying to hoist him up the side of a buildling.
Now both of those are going to have the same outcome, Bruce finding out pretty quickly that the guy he's trying to stop isn't normal. Either he won't get knocked out or the obvious weight of a metal endoskeleton I figure has to tip him off, right?

So Bruce is going to do any and everything he can to stay away from this guy while injuring him, so there's more batarangs and eventually explosives going to be deployed which knocks off enough meat to show the metal underneath at which time Bruce figures thou shalt not kill does not apply to machines and then it's one Tumbler shot away from a decent bit of damage to the Terminator.

Even if Bruce pulls the PIS card out and tries to go melee with the machine he's not in THAT much danger I figure. Let's think about how the Terminator treats his fights and such.
1. Fist into the punk AFTER asking him for his clothes. So even his most lethal showing has him not going for the kill right off the bat.
2. The boyfriend he tossed around shows he's not super deadly most of the time either, despite his rep.
3. 4. ?. I forget how many Sarah Conners the Terminator killed but I remember him slowly stalking them all with that slow methodical, some would call it almost robotic, gait. Against a hit and run fighter like Bruce is going to try to be against a walking tank that kinda stalking isn't going to help much.

Didn't someone say that it took two explosions to hurt the Terminator? The first explosion was enough to tear all his muscles off and cause him to adapt a very slow walk due to the fact that his leg/foot/tibia wasn't in working order anymore.

But I do have one question. Am I making up the part where some of Bruce's batarangs could cause explosions? Didn't he use one to split the train car he and Ras Al Dente where riding in so he could glide to safety?

[Kensei]

Awww.....anyways.

Bale was pretty good at at least the sneaking part of being Batman so I'm assuming that the Terminator is following his standard protocol of looking up a name in the phone book and killing everyone with that name. So by the time Batman gets wind of the serial killer he's going to pretty easily figure out the name game and put measures out there to alert as soon as any of the remaining named are maimed. Now against people with guns, which the Terminator I'm assuming will have since he's following his MO, Bruce is going to keep a ranged game of his own probably either starting off with the knock out ninja star batarangs or by hooking the Terminator and trying to hoist him up the side of a buildling.
Now both of those are going to have the same outcome, Bruce finding out pretty quickly that the guy he's trying to stop isn't normal. Either he won't get knocked out or the obvious weight of a metal endoskeleton I figure has to tip him off, right?

So Bruce is going to do any and everything he can to stay away from this guy while injuring him, so there's more batarangs and eventually explosives going to be deployed which knocks off enough meat to show the metal underneath at which time Bruce figures thou shalt not kill does not apply to machines and then it's one Tumbler shot away from a decent bit of damage to the Terminator.

Even if Bruce pulls the PIS card out and tries to go melee with the machine he's not in THAT much danger I figure. Let's think about how the Terminator treats his fights and such.
1. Fist into the punk AFTER asking him for his clothes. So even his most lethal showing has him not going for the kill right off the bat.
2. The boyfriend he tossed around shows he's not super deadly most of the time either, despite his rep.
3. 4. ?. I forget how many Sarah Conners the Terminator killed but I remember him slowly stalking them all with that slow methodical, some would call it almost robotic, gait. Against a hit and run fighter like Bruce is going to try to be against a walking tank that kinda stalking isn't going to help much.

Didn't someone say that it took two explosions to hurt the Terminator? The first explosion was enough to tear all his muscles off and cause him to adapt a very slow walk due to the fact that his leg/foot/tibia wasn't in working order anymore.

But I do have one question. Am I making up the part where some of Bruce's batarangs could cause explosions? Didn't he use one to split the train car he and Ras Al Dente where riding in so he could glide to safety?

I'm on board with most of this, except for- "Ras Al Dente?" But anyway, yes Bruce did throw something that actually blew the train car in half, but I don't think it was a batarang. More like one of those little round things like the one he gave John Blake in Dark Knight Rises and said "Count to five then throw." Their explosive force showed pretty wide variation.

[Masonicon]

How about we uses Comic Batman instead?

[Jonathan]

I'm on board with most of this, except for- "Ras Al Dente?" But anyway, yes Bruce did throw something that actually blew the train car in half, but I don't think it was a batarang. More like one of those little round things like the one he gave John Blake in Dark Knight Rises and said "Count to five then throw." Their explosive force showed pretty wide variation.

Yes he had explosives. He used them to blow off a door at a psyche ward when he was making a quick exit.

[The Transient Guest]

First of all Ras Al Dente is goddamn hilarious and second of all I'm waiting for the pro-robot side to refute me.

Oh, and I also got Dr. Who socks for Christmas.

[StupidMoniker]

Standing 100 feet apart with standard equipment, I see no way for Bruce to survive the bullets headed his way from the T-800.

Even in a scenario where they don't start in direct conflict and he is going after what he believes is a murderer, Batman likely gets killed before moving to engage, because his typical move (hide in the dark) is totally ineffective against the Terminator's infrared imaging, and thus he gets shot while he thinks he is safe.

[Jonathan]

Standing 100 feet apart with standard equipment, I see no way for Bruce to survive the bullets headed his way from the T-800.

Even in a scenario where they don't start in direct conflict and he is going after what he believes is a murderer, Batman likely gets killed before moving to engage, because his typical move (hide in the dark) is totally ineffective against the Terminator's infrared imaging, and thus he gets shot while he thinks he is safe.

Its not like the Terminator can sneak a move in on him while tricking him into thinkink it doesn't know he's there. If Bruce does like you suggest he would realize the Termie saw him in time to change tactics.

[The Transient Guest]

Why're some treating it like an arena fight when the OP says it takes place in Gotham?

Why's some act like the Terminator has flawless targeting and reactions despite the fact that a very human woman was able to evade him in a dance club long enough for Kyle Reese to get his two shots in?

Why do we give the Terminator 360 degree vision and such despite the fact that Kyle Reese wasn't turned to mush the second he came within visual distance?

When we can discount the reputation of the Terminators and look at their actual on screen feats it's not that impressive and I'm a bit impressed with how impressive the impression left on some folks are.

[MichaelC]

Chalk it up to Arnie's charisma. He can sell badass even when his feats don't back it up.

[StupidMoniker]

Its not like the Terminator can sneak a move in on him while tricking him into thinkink it doesn't know he's there. If Bruce does like you suggest he would realize the Termie saw him in time to change tactics.

He doesn't have to sneak a move in. Bats is hiding and watching, the T-800 pulls out a gun and starts shooting at him. What do you think happens from there?

Why're some treating it like an arena fight when the OP says it takes place in Gotham?

Who is treating it like an arena fight. Unless otherwise specified, starting distance is 100 feet and the people have standard equipment. Being in Gotham doesn't change that.

Why's some act like the Terminator has flawless targeting and reactions despite the fact that a very human woman was able to evade him in a dance club long enough for Kyle Reese to get his two shots in?

The Terminator had pretty good targeting when it wasn't shooting at Reece or Conner. Look at the Terminator in T2 that took out all of those cop cars with a minigun with zero human casualties, then was kneecapping people with barely a glance and disabling others with a gas grenade launcher. It isn't like Bale Bats is super fast or something.

Why do we give the Terminator 360 degree vision and such despite the fact that Kyle Reese wasn't turned to mush the second he came within visual distance?

He doesn't need 360 degree vision.

When we can discount the reputation of the Terminators and look at their actual on screen feats it's not that impressive and I'm a bit impressed with how impressive the impression left on some folks are.

Like I said, in T2 his feats are quite impressive. In addition to the above he shoots a padlock with a shotgun from the back of a moving motorcycle. His gun feats are way better than anyone in the Batman Begins Universe.

[The Transient Guest]

Who is treating it like an arena fight. Unless otherwise specified, starting distance is 100 feet and the people have standard equipment. Being in Gotham doesn't change that.

Really? It changes nothing to start off in Gotham? In all the years that I've been around here I've always seen "standard arena fight" when people wanted standard arena fights but when they say "takes place in Hawaii, Gotham, France, etc" that usually means something besides standard set ups.
Yes, there have been topics with "takes place in Gotham and they start on opposite sides of the city" and while we're not doing that here we are in Gotham. Gotham has plenty of buildings and such for Batman to take flight to.
And once he's up there he can rain pain at his leisure.

The Terminator had pretty good targeting when it wasn't shooting at Reece or Conner. Look at the Terminator in T2 that took out all of those cop cars with a minigun with zero human casualties, then was kneecapping people with barely a glance and disabling others with a gas grenade launcher. It isn't like Bale Bats is super fast or something.

Giving T2 feats to a T1 model? Mind if I give Batman feats from the third movie where he was using the Bat as standard equipment?

He doesn't need 360 degree vision.

Batman + up on a roof looking down = A terminator staring straight ahead isn't going to see him.

Like I said, in T2 his feats are quite impressive. In addition to the above he shoots a padlock with a shotgun from the back of a moving motorcycle. His gun feats are way better than anyone in the Batman Begins Universe.

And like I said, this is a T1 Terminator.

[Jonathan]

He doesn't have to sneak a move in. Bats is hiding and watching, the T-800 pulls out a gun and starts shooting at him. What do you think happens from there?

Who is treating it like an arena fight. Unless otherwise specified, starting distance is 100 feet and the people have standard equipment. Being in Gotham doesn't change that.

The Terminator had pretty good targeting when it wasn't shooting at Reece or Conner. Look at the Terminator in T2 that took out all of those cop cars with a minigun with zero human casualties, then was kneecapping people with barely a glance and disabling others with a gas grenade launcher. It isn't like Bale Bats is super fast or something.

He doesn't need 360 degree vision.

Like I said, in T2 his feats are quite impressive. In addition to the above he shoots a padlock with a shotgun from the back of a moving motorcycle. His gun feats are way better than anyone in the Batman Begins Universe.

He could move out of the way before the Terminator moved its gun to shoot him. First movie Term didn't have that much as far as impressive reflex feats.

[Slade1]

Probably because he doesn't own them, he usually only has them when he can borrow them from Lucius Fox.

And who owns the company? Let me give you a hint, it's not Fox.

It's Bruce's gadgets no matter how you look at it. And the reason he doesn't use them is because of pure PIS.