Fempop On Why A Supermodel Would Date/ Marry Peter Parker

[Heasensy32]

Or it could just make a more compelling couple. Let's face it, Peter is not nor will never be a well adjusted man with no baggage either. It's too late for that, he's screwed up for life.

Peter's not that bad compared to Ben Grimm, Wade Wilson, Bruce Banner and arguably Tony Stark in suffered baggage. MJ is like the easy way out when having a woman who comes magically out of the blue to become Peter's destined miracle lover due to being a status quo loser who no realistic women would be with. That it's too hard and unreasonable for any guy like peter to have a normal put together strong abled woman like Carol or Kitty Pryde as a lover. That sends a bad message not only to me but to little children who idolizes spiderman as one of their own heroes, since Peter should be about hope and being the best of what you are and still getting a pay off of your hard work and effort.

Peter is gifted and funny. He's also the nicest and most idealistic of any marvel hero in the MU as well as the most determined to do right. Captain America the guy who is the ruler or idealism and hope has said that. And on that note only cap can match peter in those aspects as a hero. So there is no way a well adjusted lady who had the common sense to see a lucky catch would ever turn down peter unless they were evil or not right the head. I think peter would make it work before being bitten by a radioactive spider.

[cyberhubbs]

True, but that was actually kind of the point. Mary Jane's a very talented actress, and a lot of people in real life are very good at hiding facets of themselves and their lives that they think would cause other people to reject them. As someone from a broken family where rejection was almost the order of the day, she acted the part of the fun-loving, happy-go-lucky party girl so that people would want to be around her and not leave her alone with her real thoughts and feelings. Plus, given that one of the major themes of Spider-Man as a series and character is duality of identity and how people put on masks both literal and figurative to conceal their true selves, it actually makes a great degree of sense that the most visible and dynamic love interests Peter has had in the comics were those who put on masks of one sort or another (the Black Cat in literal terms and Mary Jane in metaphorical terms). To compare and contrast, what made Peter's relationship with Mary Jane last and endure, editorially mandated attempts at separating them be damned, was that they were both willing to take off their masks for each other, and what made Peter's relationship with the Black Cat fail and fall apart was that she wanted to keep the masks on and didn't care for herself or him without said masks. It's really a marvelous (pun possibly intended) piece of character development and evolution and why Peter and Mary Jane's relationship resonates with so many fans to this day.

I think it's similar to the argument against OMD. They needed to break her, make her entire time in the comic into a lie. Just so she'd be a better fit for Peter. I guess I just found her tragic backstory a little cliche.

Plus, I liked Party Girl MJ. She was crazy and cool.

[cyberhubbs]

Honestly, does anyone really feel that way?

I don't hate MJ. I disagree with her fans on how she should be portrayed, though. But that's just a matter of preference.

[Vortex85]

I think it's similar to the argument against OMD. They needed to break her, make her entire time in the comic into a lie. Just so she'd be a better fit for Peter. I guess I just found her tragic backstory a little cliche.

Plus, I liked Party Girl MJ. She was crazy and cool.

She still mainained a lot of that quality through parts of their marriage. It also seems it's back with Dan Slott writing. I like her with both sides. It's nice that she can switch "on" and "off" the party girl aspect. Back when she was first written, she was always "on" and didn't take things seriously. She's a better character for the development she's had over the years.

[Vortex85]

Peter's not that bad compared to Ben Grimm, Wade Wilson, Bruce Banner and arguably Tony Stark in suffered baggage. MJ is like the easy way out when having a woman who comes magically out of the blue to become Peter's destined miracle lover due to being a status quo loser who no realistic women would be with. That it's too hard and unreasonable for any guy like peter to have a normal put together strong abled woman like Carol or Kitty Pryde as a lover. That sends a bad message not only to me but to little children who idolizes spiderman as one of their own heroes, since Peter should be about hope and being the best of what you are and still getting a pay off of your hard work and effort.

Peter is gifted and funny. He's also the nicest and most idealistic of any marvel hero in the MU as well as the most determined to do right. Captain America the guy who is the ruler or idealism and hope has said that. And on that note only cap can match peter in those aspects as a hero. So there is no way a well adjusted lady who had the common sense to see a lucky catch would ever turn down peter unless they were evil or not right the head. I think peter would make it work before being bitten by a radioactive spider.

What? Nothing about MJ is easy. She's not a miracle lover. She can't join Peter on his adventures and support him in battle like some ideal super heroine. Also, Peter is not a status quo loser. I disagree wtih that completely and that is not why she is with him.

Also, Peter has gotten better, but he's no saint. He was flat out bad to MJ in their marriage for a period in the early 90s. Avoiding her when she reached out to him and selfishly wrapped up in his life as Spider-Man. I've completely disagreed with Peter's behavior many times, though he's made up for it by showing how MJ is his world and professing how much he loves and needs her in his life. I think it shows MJ's strength and resolve to be able to handle his absense and show so much love that she is willing to live in an unideal marriage with her husband frequently risking his life and bringing danger into their home. A lot of women would not have put up with it and would have just left him, and she did a couple times but their love was too much for each other and they can't live without each other for long.

But things had for a while progressed and gotten much better. But it was never easy. It never stayed too perfect for long. And isn't that what you want for Peter? You don't want his life to become too easy, or too ideal. Their are good times and bad times interspersed throughout his history.

[cyberhubbs]

She still mainained a lot of that quality through parts of their marriage. It also seems it's back with Dan Slott writing. I like her with both sides. It's nice that she can switch "on" and "off" the party girl aspect. Back when she was first written, she was always "on" and didn't take things seriously. She's a better character for the development she's had over the years.

I liked that about her. She didn't take things seriously. I mean, she did when it counted like after Gwen died.

[Mister Mets]

I liked that about her. She didn't take things seriously. I mean, she did when it counted like after Gwen died.

I think they've gone too much in the other direction, where the party girl aspect is the exception rather than the norm.

[Mister Mets]

It's not that Peter is unattractive, and therefore undeserving of Mary Jane. It's just that people hate Mary Jane, either because the marriage just so happened to be present during "many" bad stories (Most, if not all of which are from the Clone Saga alone), or she became too popular, preventing other women from "having a chance" in the spotlight. Because the marriage was "bad", it must have been because Peter was married to Mary Jane. Because she's "too popular", it must mean she's overrated, and if she's overrated, then that just mean that there are flaws to her character preventing her from being "deserving" of her popularity. So because of that, Mary Jane either must sidelined so other characters can have a chance - usually with the expectation that if Mary Jane is gone long enough, one of those "other characters" will be the one to marry Peter, and Peter is married to that character, then Peter being married is magically no longer a bad thing - or, because she can't be sidelined, people need to provide reasons that show Mary Jane as being terrible. However, no one actually can name something specific that bothered them about her, so they speak in broad generalizations, and as I was saying, they just point to the Clone Saga. Because apparently the only reason the Clone Saga is at infamous as it is is because Mary Jane is a "toxic" character who ruined the whole franchise coincidentally throughout the entire duration of the Clone Saga and a maligned relaunch that attempted to kill her off, yet is still criticized in spite of that.

Really, I'm actually curious how many people even believe that this is a legitimate criticism of the character, and aren't just latching onto it because they're not fond of Mary Jane, and this just happens to be the most convenient stance to take, because this really just feels like people are hopping on a bandwagon. It's also horribly sexist, as it suggests that a woman is not allowed to be more successful or attractive than the man she's with. Or, to talk from a narrative standpoint, it's saying that the love interest is not allowed their own autonomy that is separate from the main character, because if that were the case, then it "betrays" the character's primary purpose of being the protagonist's love interest.

Who said that?

[Aruran.]

I think they've gone too much in the other direction, where the party girl aspect is the exception rather than the norm.

It's pretty hard to validate a party girl in the story when everyone is an adult.

[cyberhubbs]

It's pretty hard to validate a party girl in the story when everyone is an adult.

I don't think she should be at raves with kids, mind you. But I do think she could be more of a free spirit. Which doesnt automatically mean sleeping around, just to be clear.

[Phantom Roxas]

Who said that?

My response to Vortex85 was in reference that thread on undoing OMD, though there's a lot of other factors. There was also a quote saying that Mary Jane was a "force of nature", and that's what actually killed Gwen, and it's preventing characters like Carlie Cooper and Cissy Ironwoods from having a chance. Really, this is just my interpretation of things.

[Vortex85]

I don't think she should be at raves with kids, mind you. But I do think she could be more of a free spirit. Which doesnt automatically mean sleeping around, just to be clear.

Well, Slot has had her dancing at raves during his run and owning her own nightclub so she has defintely got the part girl vibe going on now. Plus she would always go out dancing during the early 90s stories even and prying Peter to meet her friends and come into her world after Peter and her were married.

It rightfullly stopped during her pregnancy. In the post Clone Saga days she would dress up and go out with her friends and drag Peter along with her into situations he normally wasn't into which was fun to see. Though, I think during JMS's run after their reconciliation she became more serious and less concerned about her nightlife and the party girl vibe.

It's cool to see it back a bit but I think it's nice that she's had eras with and without it. It shows there is a lot more to her and she doesn't necessarily need it, it isn't her all the time, but it's something she does enjoy. I wouldn't ever want to see it go away completely.

[Kevinroc]

My response to Vortex85 was in reference that thread on undoing OMD, though there's a lot of other factors. There was also a quote saying that Mary Jane was a "force of nature", and that's what actually killed Gwen, and it's preventing characters like Carlie Cooper and Cissy Ironwoods from having a chance. Really, this is just my interpretation of things.

Characters like Carlie and Cissy don't last because they weren't created by Stan Lee and co. I've said it before, but the number of supporting characters (not counting villains here, although villains also struggle to make an impact) that Stan didn't have a hand in are very small. Glory Grant. And... Uumm...

(Felicia Hardy has her own category. And even with her current villainous slant, I think some are exaggerating her prominence. But she did fill the niche of a costumed character for Spidey to bounce off of in a romantic setting.)

Creators gravitate to the characters who have history within an IP. Sure, we always see an attempt to bring in some new dynamics, but the paradigm always shifts back towards familiar characters. There's a reluctance to let go. (Gwen Stacy is an excellent example of that reluctance. Look at the excitement for Spider-Gwen.)

[Aruran.]

I don't think she should be at raves with kids, mind you. But I do think she could be more of a free spirit. Which doesnt automatically mean sleeping around, just to be clear.

That's still pretty hard to do as adults. Like Peter is a free spirit when you consider how he acts as Spider-Man, so it seems off when Peter acts as a free spirit then interacts with MJ who then acts like one.

[DCCoolness]

I know this is a world where mutants and aliens run around, but I want to know if women like MJ could exist in the real life? Could you have a wife who dresses in skimpy outfits and have a heart of gold? What about the idea of a super model/actress living in a regular apartment with an average guy (ignoring the spider-man persona)?