What would a new character need to completely surpass Superman in renown and popularity?

[The S0/\/\@7ic Si/\/\[]Dl370n]

Batman has done it.

Mickey Mouse has done it.

In terms of modern examples, Spongebob and Harry Potter almost did.

What do you think is the formula both those 4 and others have utilized? What would need to be accomplished in terms of the character's look and design, personality, disposition, supporting cast, types of stories, as well as overall genre?

What other qualities in other key areas not listed would this character need?

And how should said character be marketed?

Whom should it be targeted towards?

[Cypher]

Batman, Spongebob, Harry Potter, arent more well known than Superman.

More popular at the moment doesnt equal more well known. Superman has been around for 75 years, ask anyone in the world who he is and youll get an answer from just about everyone.

[DochaDocha]

Going to disagree with Mickey Mouse. I mean, people recognize Mickey, but today it's more as the face of a corporate empire as opposed to being a character people "know." I should clarify that I'm talking about today, as opposed to any given time in history.

Anyway, if I had to give a very terse answer, it's a lot of marketing, and an even greater amount of luck. You never know what will catch on, and when its popularity will inevitably decline. I don't think anyone can pinpoint the difference between what makes something sensational fads or timeless classics, except maybe the stuff that becomes timeless is more likely to be accompanied by good narrative.

[Superlad93]

This is a pretty big question, but it comes with a pretty simple answer: anything. A character just has to be made in a way that is enduring and accessible. There's no real 1 to 1 formula that can just be written down. I'd say the only real constant is that you market it towards kids and up. Other than that you just need that unquantifiable spark made from converging ideas.

[Nite-Wing]

Well I think Superman isn't that hard to surpass as a character. The iconic aesthetic is never going to die out like old movies that stand the test of time but there are going to be things that are seen as being done better than Superman.
Imo there are much more inclusive if less popular superheroes that give the same message. All you need to do is reach an audience and hopefully it takes off wholesale like a batman or spider-man

[Powerboy]

Batman, Spongebob, Harry Potter, arent more well known than Superman.

More popular at the moment doesnt equal more well known. Superman has been around for 75 years, ask anyone in the world who he is and youll get an answer from just about everyone.

Good point. A couple of decades ago, you could substitute Barney the Dinosaur for Sponge Bob. But Barney has faded. He appealed to a generation of small children and didn't transcend that generation. The same thing seems to be happening with Sponge Bob.

As DochaDocha said, lots of luck. Some characters become popular because they came along at exactly the right time and, by the time that era faded, they were burned into the public consciousness. Great marketing, a set of lucky coincidences, a touch of originality. It's unpredictable.

[The S0/\/\@7ic Si/\/\[]Dl370n]

Batman, Spongebob, Harry Potter, arent more well known than Superman.

More popular at the moment doesnt equal more well known. Superman has been around for 75 years, ask anyone in the world who he is and youll get an answer from just about everyone.

For Spongebob and Harry Potter, I said "almost".

Also, is there really any place or group of people that know Superman that doesn't also know Batman?

Going to disagree with Mickey Mouse. I mean, people recognize Mickey, but today it's more as the face of a corporate empire as opposed to being a character people "know." I should clarify that I'm talking about today, as opposed to any given time in history.

Mickey Mouse's popularity has definitely faded over the years, but he's still most likely more well-known.

Also, is it possible the same could also be said of Superman when it comes to certain locations and demographics?

Anyway, if I had to give a very terse answer, it's a lot of marketing, and an even greater amount of luck. You never know what will catch on, and when its popularity will inevitably decline. I don't think anyone can pinpoint the difference between what makes something sensational fads or timeless classics, except maybe the stuff that becomes timeless is more likely to be accompanied by good narrative.

This is a pretty big question, but it comes with a pretty simple answer: anything. A character just has to be made in a way that is enduring and accessible. There's no real 1 to 1 formula that can just be written down. I'd say the only real constant is that you market it towards kids and up. Other than that you just need that unquantifiable spark made from converging ideas.

Well I think Superman isn't that hard to surpass as a character. The iconic aesthetic is never going to die out like old movies that stand the test of time but there are going to be things that are seen as being done better than Superman.
Imo there are much more inclusive if less popular superheroes that give the same message. All you need to do is reach an audience and hopefully it takes off wholesale like a batman or spider-man

Good point. A couple of decades ago, you could substitute Barney the Dinosaur for Sponge Bob. But Barney has faded. He appealed to a generation of small children and didn't transcend that generation. The same thing seems to be happening with Sponge Bob.

As DochaDocha said, lots of luck. Some characters become popular because they came along at exactly the right time and, by the time that era faded, they were burned into the public consciousness. Great marketing, a set of lucky coincidences, a touch of originality. It's unpredictable.

Well, looking at the cited examples, any ideas on what traits each of them contain that fit these criteria?

[Heasensy32]

Easy just make him more powerful yet cooler than superman.

[Powerboy]

Well, looking at the cited examples, any ideas on what traits each of them contain that fit these criteria?

For these purposes, I'll consider a "lifespan" of a few decades as being a success longterm since none of these examples predate the 20th century. Yes, Mickey Mouse has faded though the name is well known. Tarzan has faded though almost everybody knows who he is.

Some things remain known because they are from ancient myth. If we are talking about well known and popular in Western culture and specifically the United States- as I really cannot address much else- let's look at some characters.

Why is Hercules so popular? Had some monsters to fight that made it exciting? Why isn't Gilgamesh as popular in movies, or, until recently, Thor? Or a thousand other mythical characters?

Batman? Superman? Being the first or close to the first certainly helps. Superman was maybe not exactly the first in his medium but he was the biggest early one to catch on. So being around first and being an originator helps. But you could find examples of characters meeting that criteria that we've all but forgotten about.

Supposedly, Batman was fading until Bill Finger understood what appeals to children and emphasized all the batarangs and batrope and utility belt and Batmobile, Batplane, etc. What if he hadn't done that or hadn't been allowed to? Would Batman have faded away? Maybe some other character did fade away.

Adaptibility. Batman is very adaptable to the times. So is Superman though maybe not quite as much. Very recently, they seem to have caught onto that with Sherlock Holmes, either resetting his adventures in modern times or doing movies where he is in the 1880s but has totally modern social attitudes. But then again, he had to stick around abd be popular for 120 years first for that to happen. But, again, though not truly the first of his genre, the first to catch on and be a phenomenon.

So, I'll just name the one quality of adaptibility. In other words, he has to be able to change with the times and a changing culture and yet still be in essence that same character.

[Lee-Sensei]

Batman, Spongebob, Harry Potter, arent more well known than Superman.

More popular at the moment doesnt equal more well known. Superman has been around for 75 years, ask anyone in the world who he is and youll get an answer from just about everyone.

Batman arguably is better known than superman.

Also, Mickey mouse probably didn't surpass superman... He probably started ahead. He's existed almost a decade longer after all.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Easy just make him more powerful yet cooler than superman.

Actually, that's the one thing you shouldn't do. Any overt similarities to Superman will pretty much automatically make that character less iconic than the original superhero. It has to be something notably different.

[DrNewGod]

Supposedly, Batman was fading until Bill Finger understood what appeals to children and emphasized all the batarangs and batrope and utility belt and Batmobile, Batplane, etc. What if he hadn't done that or hadn't been allowed to? Would Batman have faded away?... Adaptibility. Batman is very adaptable to the times...

Interesting thought. However, Green Arrow and Aquaman managed to survive as back up features in comics into the 1970s. Batman might have been able to do so as well.

[dancj]

I thought everyone hated Mickey Mouse. Maybe it's just me.

[victorsage]

If your talking just name recognition. you'd need a character and story that can appeal to a huge portion of that world population. Which likely will be a more "vanilla" character. Someone who doesn't have much politics connected to them, who stories aren't super controversial, who most people will want to cheer for, and who is easily connectable with.

Basically you'd need to create a character that people can connect with easily. That's not as easy sad as done of course. I personally doubt that many characters rise up to that level we are talking about. Who's more famous then Superman? You don't have to just look at pop culture characters that we think of today as "pop culture" either. Sherlock Holmes is likely more well known, as is Romeo and Juliet, Dracula, and other "classic" characters are at least in my opinion known by more or as many people as Superman is.

It would really be an issue of time as much as anything else as well. Let's take Sherlock Holmes for example. The character has been around for over a hundred years, and there are still movies made about him, books written about him, and tv shows based on him and his characterizations. That's lasting power that few characters reach. Superman is one of them, but it's a pretty elite club.

[Starchild]

Milking and shoehorning.