Could bad guys like Dr. Doom ruling the world be a bad thing?

[Mark]

I can't believe how many here think it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a single person controlling the world, and a villain no less. There would be no individual liberties other than
what the tyrant believed was important. Anybody who criticized or challenged him could be imprisoned or killed at a whim. There have been plenty of rulers like this throughout
history, until enough people were willing to die to take them out of power. That is such an insult to the people who died to liberate others from the exact thing some of you are saying
would be okay. Talk about entitlement. A lot of people paid a huge price for the lives you inherited. It's disgusting to hear the complete lack of appreciation from some of you.
No wonder the government has been able to gain so much control over the people the last 20 years. Nobody pays attention until it hits them in the face.

In this case I'm saying that someone like Doom would be better than Reed and Tony, or at least no worse. I don't deny that there would be a loss of freedom, but as you point out there has been a steady loss of freedom for decades now and I see no way of reversing that. As I said better an honest tyrant than a tyrant or government who pretends to have your own best interest at heart when it takes away your freedoms. Freedoms like governments come and go and always have to be fought for, at least with someone like Doom you'd have a solid foe unlike Reed or Tony who would always claim that you should sacrifice for the greater good.

[Mark]

Tony is a bad guy now, so what he is doing now fitw with what a bad guy would do. Reed building prison to house those who break the law isnt evil.We have glimpse of evil Reed in the ultimate line and he was very doomish.

Reed's negative zone prison was evil, as anyone who spent time in it could tell you.

[cyberhubbs]

I disagree, Doom may be more obvious about it but Tony's enslaving people with drugs and Reed builds prisons for them in hellish places when he's not treating people like science experiments. The difference is that Doom has years of this sort of thing where Reed and Tony are amateurs.

Isn't Tony currently "inverted"?

Reed may make mistakes that change from writer to writer, but Doom is always a dictator.

[Mark]

Isn't Tony currently "inverted"?

Reed may make mistakes that change from writer to writer, but Doom is always a dictator.

What's the difference between inverted Tony and regular Tony?
And that is what I mean, Doom is honest about what he is and what he does and why. He doesn't switch sides, he doesn't pretend, he doesn't put on a benevolent mask: he's a tyrant. That sort of honesty is something I for one appreciate.

[Maven]

I can't believe how many here think it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a single person controlling the world, and a villain no less. There would be no individual liberties other than
what the tyrant believed was important. Anybody who criticized or challenged him could be imprisoned or killed at a whim. There have been plenty of rulers like this throughout
history, until enough people were willing to die to take them out of power. That is such an insult to the people who died to liberate others from the exact thing some of you are saying
would be okay. Talk about entitlement. A lot of people paid a huge price for the lives you inherited. It's disgusting to hear the complete lack of appreciation from some of you.
No wonder the government has been able to gain so much control over the people the last 20 years. Nobody pays attention until it hits them in the face.

AMEN, and quite resoundingly so. This thread epitomizes why, as mean and 'evil' (no, I don't want to rule the world, OR even a mere country or state, thank you) as it sounds, folks like me tend to think of people in near any collective manner as the sheep they more often than not prove themselves to be. Not to mention that the more than apparent refusal to learn from past instances of individuals who wanted to solely rule the world if they had ultimately had their way is pretty downright frightening. And you know, OR SHOULD KNOW, what has been said about those who refuse to learn from history...

[cyberhubbs]

What's the difference between inverted Tony and regular Tony?
And that is what I mean, Doom is honest about what he is and what he does and why. He doesn't switch sides, he doesn't pretend, he doesn't put on a benevolent mask: he's a tyrant. That sort of honesty is something I for one appreciate.

That's a weird thing to appreciate.

[Mark]

That's a weird thing to appreciate.

I've never been normal

[TruDivination]

What's the difference between inverted Tony and regular Tony?
And that is what I mean, Doom is honest about what he is and what he does and why. He doesn't switch sides, he doesn't pretend, he doesn't put on a benevolent mask: he's a tyrant. That sort of honesty is something I for one appreciate.

An honest dictator with a concern for children's health.
image.jpg

[ed2962]

An honest dictator with a concern for children's health.
image.jpg

Hitler liked kids and little dogs too (smiley face)

[Pat Thomas]

AMEN, and quite resoundingly so. This thread epitomizes why, as mean and 'evil' (no, I don't want to rule the world, OR even a mere country or state, thank you) as it sounds, folks like me tend to think of people in near any collective manner as the sheep they more often than not prove themselves to be. Not to mention that the more than apparent refusal to learn from past instances of individuals who wanted to solely rule the world if they had ultimately had their way is pretty downright frightening. And you know, OR SHOULD KNOW, what has been said about those who refuse to learn from history...

The current tendency is to remain ignorant of history, based on the false assumption that nothing from the past applies to life today. We're so superior to everyone before us
that we couldn't possibly make the same mistakes. This thinking is so dangerous, but most people don't realize it until something happens to turn their world upside down. While
clawing your way back, it's suddenly easy to see where your inaction or lack of concern contributed to your fall. Not that it's ever happened to me, though.

[Mark]

The current tendency is to remain ignorant of history, based on the false assumption that nothing from the past applies to life today. We're so superior to everyone before us
that we couldn't possibly make the same mistakes. This thinking is so dangerous, but most people don't realize it until something happens to turn their world upside down. While
clawing your way back, it's suddenly easy to see where your inaction or lack of concern contributed to your fall. Not that it's ever happened to me, though.

I've read the "Proud Tower" and I see parallels between America in 2014 and Europe in 1914. Our freedom always hangs by a slim thread and I've felt that our nation has been in decline since we gave up the space program. Currently I'm listening to the History of the Roman Empire by Garrett G. Fagan (audible.com for my kindle Fire).

I wouldn't welcome someone like Doom into our world, but for the world in the MU? The place where SHIELD was run by HYDRA and knows no laws and has no oversight, a place where there are more crazy generals with unlimited budgets and crazed scientist who work for them, a place with more covert agencies than I can could, a place where the Red Skull can become secretary of defense and that's only in the recent history. In that world Doom would probably be an improvement.

[Wellman]

Doom for a while would be a great leader for the world. The problem would come when he gets bored or his eventually is betrayed or eventually dies as his successor wouldn't be as good short of the perfect Doom bot of which there is none.

[Strangefan]

The fact he is concerned about one child's bedtime does not erase him making an armor out of human skin. If he really cared about all kids, they would have him using his power and fortune to create free health care or whatever. He cares for Valeria, I am sure, but I am also fairly sure he has a motive as well.

[Iron Maiden]

The fact he is concerned about one child's bedtime does not erase him making an armor out of human skin. If he really cared about all kids, they would have him using his power and fortune to create free health care or whatever. He cares for Valeria, I am sure, but I am also fairly sure he has a motive as well.

IMO Unthinkable was an aberration. Waid overlooked a lot of things to make his story work. It is what I called the Lectorization of Doom. He pretty much uses Hannibal Lector as a template. If you recall, Lector is a highly intelligent psychopath that turns loose a more primitive side to carry out his murders with a bit of cannibalism on the side. With Doom, Waid gave him a peculiar fetish by having him make his armor of leather, the source of which was human skin. This is also done by the secondary killer in "Silence of the Lambs". Buffalo Bill is seeking to turn himself into a female and was skinning his victims and using the skin to sew pieces of it together. A lot of this is also based on Wisconsin serial killer Ed Gein. None of this fits Doom's past history. Thankfully, no writer since then has revisited this. JMS, who handled Doom's return from Hell, pretty much ignores those details.

[Iron Maiden]

I can't believe how many here think it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a single person controlling the world, and a villain no less. There would be no individual liberties other than
what the tyrant believed was important. Anybody who criticized or challenged him could be imprisoned or killed at a whim. There have been plenty of rulers like this throughout
history, until enough people were willing to die to take them out of power. That is such an insult to the people who died to liberate others from the exact thing some of you are saying
would be okay. Talk about entitlement. A lot of people paid a huge price for the lives you inherited. It's disgusting to hear the complete lack of appreciation from some of you.
No wonder the government has been able to gain so much control over the people the last 20 years. Nobody pays attention until it hits them in the face.

Let's have a reality check here. We're talking about the MU not the RW. There's really no comparing a OTT, larger than life fictional character like Victor Von Doom. Do you know any world leaders who have a genius IQ, is a polymath and a possible candidate for Sorceror Supreme? Plus he can do that seldom used Ovoid Mind transfer trick and his mother was a bonafide sorceress.
I don't think you're going to find any one with that resume. LOL

To be sure, Doom's governance of Latveria will always be controversial since it has been handled by many different writers over the years. It took two years for Stan and Jack to even getting around to covering Doom's origin and introduce the kingdom of Latveria into the Marvel mythos. I think many readers have forgotten or maybe never even read the the origin and its deliberately tragic overtones, something very unique for a character cast as a villain. Oh, many people consider the sympathetic Magneto as a breakthough characterization of a minority is but he goes through such a complete swerve from trying to kill the X-men a few issues prior to his epiphany over nearly killing Kitty Pryde, who he finds out is Jewish. This is also where we find out Magneto himself is Jewish. All this had been already been a part of Doom's origin. IIRC it was one of the earliest examples of a comic book touching upon the prejudices people have against minorities. In this case the fact that is is revealed that Victor is part of a Romani tribe.

Going back to that origin, even while he was a young adult Victor was more of a street corner revolutionary, fighting to protect his people from the oppression of the Baron and his soldiers. Note how in this panel it says that he didn't keep any of the money he got from swindling the local aristocrats with trick merchandise he whipped up. This is not mentioned anymore because Lee & Kirby unwittingly use the stereotype of the Romani and many people still use the term "gypped" to describe being cheated out of something. But I digress. The point is he starts out as a sort of Latverian Robin Hood before he gets tempted by the offer to study in the US.



The story ends with Doom walking among the townspeople and there is no hint of any strife, just a man noting how the Latveria has improved under his rule. Prior to this, the people only knew of a man known as the Master. For a time there was a Prime Minister who made public appearance, such as the gala that the Fantastic Four get invited to at the Latverian Embassy.

By the time the Fantastic Four make their first visit to Latveria late in the Lee / Kirby years, things have changed. The people live under a cloud of fear as Kirby draws upon his favorite show at that time called the Prisoner. Like Latveria, the show takes place in a picturesque village that hides a more sinister goings on (see article from Twomorrows on Kirby's homage in the FF and his never released adaptation of the Prisoner). So by this time we see some reversal of how things appeared the first time we we introduced to Latveria. It is something that will continue long after. As editor, Stan Lee himself oversaw some of the stories where more complexities are added to the character, most notably the Roy Thomas story that saw the debut of his lost love, Valeria. Doom's next appearance in FF was in a storyline started by Stan but finished by Archie Goodwin where Sue goes to Doom to help when the Overmind captures Reed and begins his attempt to conquer the Earth.



The 1980s returns to Lee & Kirby's original take of Doom's reign in Latveria, particularly with John Byrne's Fantastic Four. Before his run, Doom had ended up straight-jacketed and put into a padded cell after undergoing a complete mental breakdown at the end of FF #200. There's some really enlightened treatment for ya. In the meantime, Prince Zorba had been helped to the throne by the Fantastic Four and rules Latveria for a short time. He soon follows in the footsteps of his father, the baron who was responsible for the death of Victor's father. Aided by a Latverian underground, Doom is shocked out of his catatonic state and undertakes a successful return to the throne. This is actually endorsed by Reed once he sees first hand what a mess Zorba had made of things. Figuring it will keep him busy for a while, Reed allows him to take the throne and rebuild Latveria.






Continued next page.....