Zero Year: Secret City Hardcover

[SpideyZERO]

I'm happy to be shown wrong, but I just went back and looked at #0 and #21-24 and they seem to fit perfectly fine to me. The Red Hood scene in #21 says "Five Months Earlier" and the Red Hood specifically mentions "all of the trouble" Bruce has been giving them. #0 occurs right before that flashback - Bruce has infiltrated the RHG and is found out, in #21 he says that the RH never takes off his mask (something he would likely only know if he infiltrated the gang). As for his meeting with Gordon on the rooftop of the town home that gets blown up - I don't believe that's been contradicted either. Later when he sees Bruce and Alfred coming out of the hole for the Batcave they are obviously familiar. My guess is that they didn't include it because #0 would go first, but without any context would be highly confusing. Thoughts?

The Red Hood part could work, but Gordon conversation won't. After Bruce was found out alive by the public, he returned home to get blown up immediately. There's no time for him to have conversation with Gordon, and that Gordon conversation made it apparently that Bruce's return was public knowledge for quite sometime. There's no way #0 will be not confusing, unless extensive rewrites and cutting up the pages

As for the solicitations to include Annual and #0, do note that official solicitation from DC only states to include #21 to #24. It is other websites that gave the wrong information before DC has their own and actual solicitation put up. Rule of thumb, any issues contained in a tpb solicitations are subjected to change, we won't know if the next HC will contain both Dark and Savage City or just Dark City until the solicitation is up on DC's side.

Annual 2 should not be collected in Zero Year HC anyway. It has zero connection to it.

[Claude]

The Red Hood part could work, but Gordon conversation won't. After Bruce was found out alive by the public, he returned home to get blown up immediately. There's no time for him to have conversation with Gordon, and that Gordon conversation made it apparently that Bruce's return was public knowledge for quite sometime. There's no way #0 will be not confusing, unless extensive rewrites and cutting up the pages

Of course, DC - and Synder in particular - do have form on rewriting dialogue for the trade.

[AlexanderLuthor]

The Red Hood part could work, but Gordon conversation won't. After Bruce was found out alive by the public, he returned home to get blown up immediately. There's no time for him to have conversation with Gordon, and that Gordon conversation made it apparently that Bruce's return was public knowledge for quite sometime. There's no way #0 will be not confusing, unless extensive rewrites and cutting up the pages

As for the solicitations to include Annual and #0, do note that official solicitation from DC only states to include #21 to #24. It is other websites that gave the wrong information before DC has their own and actual solicitation put up. Rule of thumb, any issues contained in a tpb solicitations are subjected to change, we won't know if the next HC will contain both Dark and Savage City or just Dark City until the solicitation is up on DC's side.

Annual 2 should not be collected in Zero Year HC anyway. It has zero connection to it.

I'm seriously not trying to be argumentative, you may will be right. But I just looked at it again and Bruce specifically tells Alfred that he doesn't want the world to know Bruce Wayne is alive right before Gordon shows up in #0. Then he asks Gordon how he knew he was back - and Gordon says basically that he's a good detective. When Uncle Philip stops by in Secret City Bruce is genuinely taken aback because he also knows Bruce Wayne is alive. As a matter of fact the whole last part of the issue in Secret City is Uncle Philip unveiling Bruce to the city again. I've been over it few times and I can't find a contradiction if you read #0 as happening right after the flashback in #21.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Actually, I found this and there is no contradiction. Source is therealbatmanchronologyproject.com:

–flashback from Batman #21
Mid May. Bruce still hasn’t gone public about his return to Gotham. Bruce’s war on the Red Hood Gang continues. The RHG tries to kill some business execs, but Bruce saves them. Surprisingly, Philip Kane shows up at the Crime Alley brownstone and greets Bruce. Philip chats with Bruce and escorts him to Wayne Enterprises where he asks him to take over the business, but Bruce refuses. Bruce then visits a rundown Wayne Manor and recalls mapping the vast caves beneath the property as a child. At Wayne Enterprises, Edward Nygma suggests that Philip have his nephew murdered, sensing that Bruce will soon fight for control of the company. (This item occurs FIVE MONTHS before mid October, where Batman comes out of a coma to battle Riddler, hence the placement here. See intro to this year above for details.)

–Batman #0
Late June. Bruce still hasn’t gone public about his return to Gotham. and his war on the Red Hood Gang continues. Bruce infiltrates the Red Hood Gang and goes undercover as Red Hood’s “number five henchman.” However, Bruce is exposed during the robbery of the Gotham National Bank. Bruce fights off the gang and escapes. Later, Bruce tests his first Batarang and is paid a visit by Lieutenant James Gordon of the Gotham City Police Department (GCPD). While not explicitly stated, we learn here that Gordon, as the ultimate super-cop, has been aware of Bruce’s return to Gotham for the entire three months he’s been back. Gordon is less interested, however, in blowing up Bruce’s spot, and more interested in interrogating him privately. Gordon questions Bruce about vigilante activity and also about the possibility that his uncle and current head of Wayne Enterprises, Philip Kane, might be a corrupt businessman. Outside, the Red Hood Gang, which has also learned of Bruce’s return thanks to Edward Nygma (although they don’t know he is Batman), discovers the location of Bruce’s brownstone. The Red Hood plans to blow it up in the near future. (In Batman #0, which has the SIX YEARS AGO editorial tag, Gordon mentions that Bruce has been back in Gotham for THREE MONTHS, placing this item in late June, assuming Gordon is correct in his deduction.)

–Batman #22-23
July. Bruce continues his war against the Red Hood Gang, despite the fact that the gang’s numbers continue to grow larger by the day. Aboard a blimp, Bruce ties-up Oswald “Penguin” Cobblepot and disguises himself as Cobblepot to confront the Red Hood. Bruce beats up a bunch of Red Hood gangsters, takes a blood sample from the Red Hood, and makes his escape. (The blood results are a dead end.) Back at the brownstone, Bruce tests a grappling gun and argues with Alfred until the latter storms off angrily. Later, Bruce meets with Philip Kane at the museum only to learn that Uncle Philip has finally alerted the media to his return. Bruce is swarmed by reporters, including Vicki Vale, before running off. Before exiting the museum, Bruce chats with Edward Nygma, who tells Bruce that his uncle has been giving weaponry to the Red Hood Gang. Bruce returns to the brownstone to discover that someone has broken into his home. Outside, the Red Hood detonates a bomb that destroys the building. The Red Hood enters the burning building and delivers a monologue about how the randomness of the Bruce’s parents’ murders was a direct inspiration on his becoming a criminal. Meanwhile, his gang beats up Bruce, puts a couple slugs in his belly and leaves him for dead. The brownstone burns to ashes and Bruce drags his bloody self to Wayne Manor.

So #0 should have been included and put right between #21 and #22. Mistake on DC's part so you might want to wait for the absolute with all of Zero Year

[resipsaloquitur]

...well, I don't want to wait two more years and pay $100 for a single Zero Year collection. I like the idea of having all 12 issues (or 13 with #0) in one collection, but not at the price that the Absolute Editions go for. That mildly killed me with the Absolute Blackest Night--I had that and the BN: Green Lantern hardcovers, and reading those together was annoying. I'm guessing the Absolute edition is a cleaner read, but again, not worth the cost to me.

If there's a mild contradiction between #0 and #22 (and it sounds like there isn't), I wouldn't have minded a minor rewrite on the dialogue to get them to fit. Didn't DC do a minor rewrite on some dialogue in Final Crisis from the floppy editions?

[AlexanderLuthor]

...well, I don't want to wait two more years and pay $100 for a single Zero Year collection. I like the idea of having all 12 issues (or 13 with #0) in one collection, but not at the price that the Absolute Editions go for. That mildly killed me with the Absolute Blackest Night--I had that and the BN: Green Lantern hardcovers, and reading those together was annoying. I'm guessing the Absolute edition is a cleaner read, but again, not worth the cost to me.

If there's a mild contradiction between #0 and #22 (and it sounds like there isn't), I wouldn't have minded a minor rewrite on the dialogue to get them to fit. Didn't DC do a minor rewrite on some dialogue in Final Crisis from the floppy editions?

Oh, I agree. #0 should have been there - especially since it was solicited. Usually, Batman's continuity is tight as can be, as they use a database for everything on the timeline

[SpideyZERO]

I'm seriously not trying to be argumentative, you may will be right. But I just looked at it again and Bruce specifically tells Alfred that he doesn't want the world to know Bruce Wayne is alive right before Gordon shows up in #0. Then he asks Gordon how he knew he was back - and Gordon says basically that he's a good detective. When Uncle Philip stops by in Secret City Bruce is genuinely taken aback because he also knows Bruce Wayne is alive. As a matter of fact the whole last part of the issue in Secret City is Uncle Philip unveiling Bruce to the city again. I've been over it few times and I can't find a contradiction if you read #0 as happening right after the flashback in #21.

Is it? Interesting. It has been quite some time since I last read #0 but I was pretty sure that public knew Bruce was alive in #0. I'm gonna have to reread #0 again

[resipsaloquitur]

This is up there with me owning that nice Crisis on Infinite Earths hardcover from the 90s, along with the Legends of the DC Universe Crisis special that takes place in the middle of the story. One is on my bookshelf, and one is in my floppies box, and the OCD part of my brain can't handle them being in separate places. Actually, that's probably a worse example since Perez didn't draw the special and it doesn't neatly slide between any issues. Anyway, I'm sad.

[PyroSikTh]

Don't they collect the tangentially-related Batman Annual in Vol.4?

Not according to reviews on Amazon.

Either way, I'd rather have a "Zero Year" collection about the size of the Black Mirror one than the sub-arcs collected. In fact, I think I'll probably wait until they inevitably release one.

I'll take it either way to be honest. I'd like the same for Court/City of Owls too, but I don't want to wait ages to pick them up.