What-if Magneto buttered up The Hulk/Bruce Banner?

[Animeality]

After being antagonized for years, Magneto appeals to both Bruce Banner and the Hulk by welcoming them into the Brotherhood of Mutants, accepting them as mutants and pointing out how General Ross and his "humans" have been hunting them. Magneto crafts an anti-Xavier helmet for Banner, and builds it with an expandable material that can fit The Hulk's head.

How screwed are the X-Men?

[TerryAce]

All the screwed unless they can get Doom to re-fuse Scarlet Witch with that magical entity again

[Stigmazilla]

All the screwed unless they can get Doom to re-fuse Scarlet Witch with that magical entity again

is that really so much worse then juggernaut?

[big_adventure]

It really isn't worse at all than Classic Juggy. Juggy is stronger, much more durable and has an "unstoppable" bonus power. The same ways to beat Juggy exist for HelmetHulk as well (ripping off the hat and TP'ing him, or BFR), plus HelmetHulk can simply be beaten with enough damage, something that doesn't really work with Juggy.

And it's still nothing on the level of a bunch of the X-Men's foes. Hell, the recruiter, in this situation, is Magneto, someone who would instantly slaughter most teams of X-Men at the bell, without his "don't wanna kill mutants" thing and/or PIS getting in the way.

[Anarchist]

Yup, to be precise, Hulk NEVER beat the Juggernaut once without using BFR, the Juggernaut being depowered or Hulk being amped (War Hulk).
Even during WWH (the X-Men really had it worst with being hit by PIS in favour for Hulk) Juggy was overpowering Bruce and had to be BFR'd.

And on the subject: There are people who could solo in SECONDS on several teams of the X-Men.
Take Magik for example, she will d-dump Bruce into Limbo at the bell.

[T-1000]

Actually, what would probably be the biggest problem for the X-men isn't so much the fact that they would have an enemy with this kind of power, it's the fact that someone with that kind of power is working for Magneto. Remember, Juggernaut usually works on his own, or with Tom Black, not Magneto. But if someone on that level started taking orders from the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, I can totally see the X-men having a serious problem.

[Captain Smith]

1. Buttered up the Hulk - like Last Tango in Paris.
2. TP the Hulk - I think he can rip up toilet paper.
3. I don't think this is an unsolvable problem for various X-Men configurations.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Actually, what would probably be the biggest problem for the X-men isn't so much the fact that they would have an enemy with this kind of power, it's the fact that someone with that kind of power is working for Magneto. Remember, Juggernaut usually works on his own, or with Tom Black, not Magneto. But if someone on that level started taking orders from the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, I can totally see the X-men having a serious problem.

Honestly, Magneto's pretty much got class 100 offensive power to start with and doesn't need to get within punching range to use it, even if the X-Men couldn't convince the Hulk to ditch Magneto in about five minutes (or with a phone call to Rick Jones). Besides, as the Avengers found out fairly early on, Hulk isn't that great of a team player and doesn't like people telling him what to do.

[Blackid]

Of course one thing that would make him difficult is the difficulty to get a grip on him... what with all the butter.

[Alias]

The Hulk/Bruce Banner would be more electrically conductive, but Bruce Banner/Hulk wouldn't necessarily remain so after switching back. it's a conundrum alright.

Either way, instances in which Magneto's failed to butter up opponents given any prep at all are clear and undeniable examples of PIS at play.

[Anarchist]

I mean, even if we would just take the Original 5 as *X-Men*, there are already 2 of them who could casually solo the Hulk.
Jean (even if she can't use her TP) can just BFR him via TK and Iceman......well Hulk can't do anything to him. He really can't.
Whereas Bobby can freeze his brain stone-cold.

[Shellhead]

Hulk can space-toss Iceman into low Earth orbit. Hulk can't do much about Jean, except maybe a thunderclap with his hands.

[Cyke]

I've been away from Rumbles for a while -- what does BFR mean? Not countering, just curious; otherwise, I agree with past showings of Juggy vs. Hulk as pointed out above.

Remember, Juggernaut usually works on his own, or with Tom Black, not Magneto. But if someone on that level started taking orders from the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, I can totally see the X-men having a serious problem.

Which reminds me, I've never understood why so many incarnations of the X-Men outside of the 616 comics have Juggernaut working for Magneto; very little about them would suggest a healthy team-up. Juggy could care less about Magneto's convictions, and villain-Magneto would never hire a human like Juggy anyway.

Hulk can space-toss Iceman into low Earth orbit. Hulk can't do much about Jean, except maybe a thunderclap with his hands.

During the Onslaught War, Storm restarted a comatose Hulk's heart with a couple massive lightning bolts as defibrillator blasts. But if she can restart his heart, I think it's well within her power to also stop it again (hence why medics always warn everyone to clear the body before administering the shock). And that's one X-Man.

[big_adventure]

Hulk can space-toss Iceman into low Earth orbit. Hulk can't do much about Jean, except maybe a thunderclap with his hands.

Space-tossing modern Bobby would do somewhere between "jack" and "squat" to the guy - he'd just transfer his consciousness to other snow and ice. And space-tossing requires closing - something Bobby doesn't need to let the guy do, as all he needs to do is freeze the ground into a skating rink and watch Hulk fall on his green butt.

I've been away from Rumbles for a while -- what does BFR mean? Not countering, just curious; otherwise, I agree with past showings of Juggy vs. Hulk as pointed out above.

BFR = Battlefield Removal. So, space-toss, ddump, anything that prevents the opponent from returning under his own power.

[Pendaran]

Unless Bobby has interplanetary range on transferring his consciousness, throwing him into space would sort him just fine. Throwing him into low earth orbit, maybe he could transfer yet, sure. Someone not being fast enough to grab and whup him into space before he does something to them, again, sure. But someone full out throwing him into space otherwise? That's about that. I'm not really wanting this to become "Iceman can laugh off being space tossed" unless you've got something for Bobby transferring himself across the vastness of, well, space. And even then, I'd be moderately leery of it.