The Pressure to Look "Real"

[Mark]

Besides there is a lot of white americans offended by Speedy Gonzalez.

People can be offended by how many times per minute you blink.

[Mark]

So did racism and misogyny. Times change.

I don't think anyone ever complained about Namor wearing just a swimsuit, or Tarzan or Conan wearing the loin cloth. But someone in charge says 'dress them this way' and lemming like everyone follows.

[Of Atlantis]

Nobody in their right mind would go fight crime wearing a bathing suit. That's just utterly ridiculous. The artist had no license to not draw her sexy. Her old costume WAS sexy. You could take away(showing more ass) but you could not add to. Her current costume, while somewhat flashy at least gives the appearance that she's showing up to a battle to actually kick ass and not some fashion shoot.

Nobody in their right mind would fight crime in spandex either but there ya go.

Her current costume is pretty bland in my opinion as well. If they wanted to redesign Ms Marvel, they should've just added yellow leggings, or maybe extend the boots to connect to the rest of the outfit. Redesigning her to look unrecognizable was a mistake that's reflected in the current sales. I feel like it took away from the stock the character had built up for so long, even going so far as to changing her name. But maybe that's just me.

[just another user]

There's nothing wrong with leather trousers.

[Ceebiro]

How long until pouches are back in fashion?

Pouches have been back in fashion for some time.

See Batman, Deadpool and Captain America.

Also this "recent trend" isn't that recent.

The earliest I remember seeing it in earnest was Ultimates vol. 1 and that was back in the early aughts. Yes there were the leather X-costumes, but that more or less abandoned traditional costumes entirely.

It's been over a decade since artists have been taking a more "grounded" but more importantly more detailed approach to rendering costumes. Rather than just extraneous lines that mean metal arms and legs, they try to make all of the lines mean something, whether it's body armor/padding, venting or whatever to indicate a measure of durability in the rough and tumble lives of superheroes.

For a character like Batman or Cap, it gives them a bit more heft, and makes them appear ready to wage personal wars on malcontents.

All that said, I do think some designs go too far. Star-Lord's movie costume is VERY poorly adapted on the comic page. Everything from the neck down just clashes with the face mask. A more traditional superhero design would look better.

[Mark]

Nobody in their right mind would fight crime in spandex either but there ya go.

Her current costume is pretty bland in my opinion as well. If they wanted to redesign Ms Marvel, they should've just added yellow leggings, or maybe extend the boots to connect to the rest of the outfit. Redesigning her to look unrecognizable was a mistake that's reflected in the current sales. I feel like it took away from the stock the character had built up for so long, even going so far as to changing her name. But maybe that's just me.

For what the writer wanted it made sense, she was re-inventing Carol almost from the ground up. But as to practicality, this is a link to an article that has a cover of Conan and Red Sonja, two people who constantly fought against foes with swords, knives, spears and claws.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...ve-comics-209/

Look at all the skin, far more than Carol Danvers who fought foes that threw energy bolts and punches. So practical really doesn't enter into it. I asked my sister why the long boots are considered 'hookerish' now and she pointed to the movie Pretty Woman. That's all it takes, one person so long as they are one of the 'cool' people decides something and the rest follow suit. I wonder sometimes if KSD considered long boots a fashion no before Pretty Woman made them so.

[electr1cgoblin]

I want to add here that I don't always think to equate "colorful" or "eye catching" with something overtly sexy, though I understand how they can overlap. I was referencing the new Spiderwoman costume in my OP, but really thinking more of Hawkeye, Thor, Captain America, Quicksilver, and others. Those original costumes weren't sexy, IMO, but they were eye catching and fun (and seemed to speak "superhero").

The current analogues of these, influenced by the films, seem quite dull in comparison.

[Ceebiro]

I want to add here that I don't always think to equate "colorful" or "eye catching" with something overtly sexy, though I understand how they can overlap. I was referencing the new Spiderwoman costume in my OP, but really thinking more of Hawkeye, Thor, Captain America, Quicksilver, and others. Those original costumes weren't sexy, IMO, but they were eye catching and fun (and seemed to speak "superhero").

The current analogues of these, influenced by the films, seem quite dull in comparison.

To be fair, the film Thor is more influenced by the JMS/Coipel era than the other way around with the armor and all of that, just as most of the current Cap designs in the films and in comics call back to Hitch's Ultimates design. Hawkeye again closely mimics his Ultimate iteration.

Quicksilver on the other hand is much more costume-y than his movie and Ultimates counterpart.

[electr1cgoblin]

To be fair, the film Thor is more influenced by the JMS/Coipel era than the other way around with the armor and all of that, just as most of the current Cap designs in the films and in comics call back to Hitch's Ultimates design. Hawkeye again closely mimics his Ultimate iteration.

Quicksilver on the other hand is much more costume-y than his movie and Ultimates counterpart.

Yeah, that's right. I really wished the film folks had based their product on classic Marvel; I never did care for the Ultimate line, in appearance or content.

[anyajenkins]

I don't think anyone ever complained about Namor wearing just a swimsuit, or Tarzan or Conan wearing the loin cloth. But someone in charge says 'dress them this way' and lemming like everyone follows.

Namor actually swims with his swimsuit, and Conan and Tarzan are supposed to be 'wild men' who don't really have/ believe in clothes.

For what the writer wanted it made sense, she was re-inventing Carol almost from the ground up. But as to practicality, this is a link to an article that has a cover of Conan and Red Sonja, two people who constantly fought against foes with swords, knives, spears and claws.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...ve-comics-209/

Look at all the skin, far more than Carol Danvers who fought foes that threw energy bolts and punches. So practical really doesn't enter into it. I asked my sister why the long boots are considered 'hookerish' now and she pointed to the movie Pretty Woman. That's all it takes, one person so long as they are one of the 'cool' people decides something and the rest follow suit. I wonder sometimes if KSD considered long boots a fashion no before Pretty Woman made them so.

Pretty Woman was an example of a hooker wearing 'hooker' boots. It didn't make them 'hooker' boots. Knee high boots, constant fashion staples, over the knee boots, not so much. Last year there actually was a bit of a trend with over the knee boots, but I don't think it really caught on. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate the old costume, but the new one is fine and not any more 'bland' than the old one.

[Hrist]

Thigh high boots have been associated with kink/fetish wear for a long time— see the wiki article. That's not an association KSD pulled out of thin air. But a lot of superhero fashion would be fetish wear in another context! And context is important— I'm not sure Red Sonja is a good go-to for practical costume design. A chainmail bikini is ridiculous and nonfunctional as armor. No one would really fight in it, and it would be a terrible choice of costume for Carol Danvers even though she's superhumanly tough. Conan and Sonja, though, live in a fantasy barbarian world where all warriors are scantily clad to emphasize the epic, pre-civilization genre feeling. Context gives meaning to character design.

Carol Danvers has had a lot of different costumes and codenames in her history, and her new costumes have always coincided with a new direction for the character. I don't think her old look fit very well with the new branding. The costume is a 70s Cockram design and looks a lot like a lot of his other designs for other characters, not really like the Carol Danvers Marvel was envisioning in 2012. But it's not like this is a new thing, it's happened a ton to Carol before, and just as the last costume was pretty clearly a product of its era, I think the emphasis on detail: stitching, buttons, &c in her current costume is a very 2010s thing.

Something no one's talked about is the way coloring technology has changed in the past 15 years to allow for the kind of shading that makes bulkier fabric looking costumes and heavier textures possible. A lot of older costumes were designed for heavier lines and flat colors, because that's what printing technology really allowed for. Now you can do a much darker, shadowier comic, and costumes are changing to reflect that. There's also no longer a "house style" at Marvel— different books have wildly different aesthetics. Ms. Marvel, Black Widow, and, say, Avengers are radically different looking books, but a successful character design would have to work in all of them, and then on top of it there's obviously an extra eye to translating looks to and from film/television.

[RobinFan4880]

It is just a fad. In fifteen year's time we will look back on this era and think how silly "realistic" costumes looked (like the way we look back on the 90's and laugh about pouches, guns and shoulder pads).

[Mark]

There are advantages to the Red Sonja style armor if you look at it from a different perspective

MailBikini.jpg

Seriously though costumes used to be part of the superheroes identity, they were designed to be eye catching and dramatic and yes impractical. Suddenly making them all bland due to a trend might help match the comic to the movies but I don't think it's going to do much for sales. I can't imagine anyone look at the current Carol Danvers costume and saying "Yes, I have to buy this."

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

There are advantages to the Red Sonja style armor if you look at it from a different perspective

MailBikini.jpg

Seriously though costumes used to be part of the superheroes identity, they were designed to be eye catching and dramatic and yes impractical. Suddenly making them all bland due to a trend might help match the comic to the movies but [B]I don't think it's going to do much for sales. I can't imagine [B]anyone look at the current Carol Danvers costume and saying "Yes, I have to buy this."

Yes, and when I am told the former costume is 'impractical' then my response is ; I KNOW THAT! I am reading fiction! I do not expect comicbook superheroes to wear 'practical' costumes. I expect them to be FUN. Part of the FUN are costumes that are not practical in real life but look AWESOME in a comic book. The costumes for most marvel characters like Carol Danvers are just too BLAND.

I am convinced that matching the comic to the movies will not do much for sales

Btw, certain marvel characters do not need to have every part of their body covered up because their skin is so tough and durable that they can withstand bullets, rockets, knives, extreme heat and extreme cold it's comics.
I count among them ; Hulk, She-Hulk, Namor, Namora, Simon Williams, Carol Danvers, Jessica Jones and Carl Lucas.

[Hrist]

The "sexy scale mail of distraction" is something that turns me off quickly. It's not practical, don't try to pretend that it's practical, it just pokes at the suspension of disbelief. And, not all superhero costumes were/should be designed to be eyecatching and impractical. (Not that I'd call the Captain Marvel outfit practical or bland, really, it's a brightly colored body suit which screams classic, generic superhero, just with some unnecessary buttons b/c military.) I'd argue that "practicality" is an aesthetic of its own in hero costume design— Batman's utility belt is a part of his costume that's supposed to highlight his practical nature. Obviously Iron Man's suit is supposed to look like something that works, and that's actually an instance of movies matching the comics more than the other way around. Pouches were another nod to practicality (don't heroes need pockets?) that got way out of hand. Impracticality is really really not just about how much skin is showing.

I can't imagine anyone look at the current Carol Danvers costume and saying "Yes, I have to buy this."

But plenty of people were drawn into the book by the redesign. Like, there's an account of just that in this story from Wired :

“I’ve been reading comic books since I was eight,” DePrey says, “and I’ve always kind of avoided superhero comics. If I was looking for a superhero that I felt was like me, her costume was a bikini and thigh-high boots or had a boob window, or she wasn’t ever on a cover by herself—she was always with a bunch of dudes that looked way cooler than she did.” Jennifer first discovered Captain Marvel with the new series. Her curiosity was piqued by news of the character’s transition and redesign. “One issue in, I was like, ‘This is my superhero. This is the character I wish I’d had when I was 12,'” she says. “I went back and read every Ms. Marvel that had been published and absolutely fell in love with this flawed, real character I could identify with.”

And this isn't a unique story. Like, I've seen a lot of other similar stories posted around the internet. The huge number of Carol cosplays I see at cons also speaks to the existence of people who are really passionate about this new costume. I wouldn't say I'm one of them, but they're out there and they're buying comics.

People just have different ideas of what a superhero comic should look like, and Marvel isn't just about catering to diverse audiences these days, but also diverse tastes. It always has been, to some degree— Daredevil has felt different than Thor for a long time— but now Marvel is publishing a Rocket Raccoon ongoing. By Skottie Young! Obviously the films have had a huge influence on getting that pitch published, but you can't tell me that book looks "realistic". It's not this 1:1 correlation.