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  1. #61
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    Batwoman took a nosedive in quality once Williams III/Blackman left, beyond repair in fact.

    Green Arrow has been a roller coaster when it comes to quality. It went from mediocre at the beginning, to awful under Nocenti, to great under Lemire, and now back to poor under Kreisberg.

    Wonder Woman has also taken a big dip in quality, but I want to wait at least a few more issues before writing it off completely.

    Birds of Prey went from decent if unspectacular, to godawful.

    Green Lantern post-Johns is another one.

    Batwing after they took away the actually interesting hook and turned it into just another bat-book with the protagonist change (and having Alfred refer to Luke as ALWAYS being Batman's "first choice" was just a cheap shot to David Zavimbe and his fans).
    Last edited by Punisher007; 01-09-2015 at 10:27 AM.

  2. #62
    You guessed it mr_crisp's Avatar
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    People have been mentioning Green Lantern and I think it took a dive before the New 52.
    The Gypsies had no home. The Doors had no bass.

    Does our reality determine our fiction or does our fiction determine our reality?

    Whenever the question comes up about who some mysterious person is or who is behind something the answer will always be Frank Stallone.

    "This isn't a locking the barn doors after the horses ran way situation this is a burn the barn down after the horses ran away situation."

  3. #63
    Spectacular Member Tula's boyfriend's Avatar
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    I have not enjoyed the Flash since the creative team change. I keep wanting it to get better.
    I dropped Batwoman after issue 11...it was pretty, but I did not like the storytelling. I had picked the book up with the creative change and have loved it .
    Earth 2 made a change, but I don't think it was bad. Now it is stuff withing World's End so it is not its own book anymore. I still love it.
    The first Teen Titans book just got worse and worse....glad it was revamped.

  4. #64
    Spectacular Member MrStatham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker75 View Post
    I'd say Batwoman was a predictable nosedive, but the shudderingly awful turn Nocenti brought to Catwoman led to me dropping the book after a few issues - and I almost never drop a book.
    The thing is, Batwoman's nosedive wasn't really predictable. Andreyko, given the chance, is arguably a better writer than JHW3 or Blackman - his Manhunter run alone is proof of that; So the drop in quality and utterly terrible storylines really was a surprise for me.

  5. #65
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    Add me to the Earth 2 book, Robinson's run was good, Like the world building that he created, Taylor run was definitely better and created one of the best possible new characters on DC"s side Val Zod, and than world end came in and slowly begin to crap everything that was established. I've never seen such a nose dive in a book quality so fast in my life. If Val Zod was in another book, I would have dropped world's end a long time ago.

    Another one is Batwing, the original concept was fantastic and ben oliver was fantastic. However he was too excluded from the rest of the bat family and wasn't even added in other books like Nightwing and Batgirl. Add the new character Luke who was a much larger douchebag than David was and it quickly went down hill.

  6. #66
    Incredible Member Aliltron's Avatar
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    Oh yeah I forgot to add Batgirl to my list. I loved Simone's Batgirl until the last arc or two. I will admit though that after Death of the Family the art took a huge turn for the worst when Pasarin joined the title, before it had Benes and Syaf and it was both an engaging story and had beautiful artwork. Now, I couldn't stand it. It was like she was a completely different character and the art now is terrible IMO. Dropped it after the first issue of the new team.

  7. #67
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    I love Gail Simone overall, but I HATED her New 52 Batgirl run. It was dreary, depressing, dull, and not particularly well-written. She just wasn't on her game with that one. "{Batgirl meets Saw" was just the complete wrong way to take the character imo, and the misery just never stopped. The new run is a breath of fresh air to me.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrStatham View Post
    The thing is, Batwoman's nosedive wasn't really predictable. Andreyko, given the chance, is arguably a better writer than JHW3 or Blackman - his Manhunter run alone is proof of that; So the drop in quality and utterly terrible storylines really was a surprise for me.
    Yeah, that is odd.

    To be predictable, it gets my vote as well, although I'll throw in a second for Stormwatch, which I thought started rather strong and for whatever reason was subject to a number of bizarre editorial requests until its cancellation. I do hope they get their own book back at some point.

    But yeah -- the thing with Batwoman could have been handled with aplomb even with a change in creative teams (though, to be fair, I still would have gone through a period of not buying it due to the unnecessarily hasting canning of JHW3 and Blackman's final issues). I even rather liked the first few issues -- enough to stick around. Forwhatever reason Andreyko just seems to have ended up being a really poor match for this character and her world -- a ton of its most appealing elements have been jettisoned, and not in a way that feels like it's in service of the story.

    I love Gail Simone overall, but I HATED her New 52 Batgirl run. It was dreary, depressing, dull, and not particularly well-written. She just wasn't on her game with that one. "{Batgirl meets Saw" was just the complete wrong way to take the character imo, and the misery just never stopped. The new run is a breath of fresh air to me.
    I liked it specifically because it was so clear on its mission statement to provide a recoving Barbara and a darker, horror-tinged, all-purple-colored-all-the-time Batgirl book. If you dug what it was putting out, which, despite that description, was all pretty tasteful and in service of the story, it was a fun, really consistent book that delivered satisfyingly on all or almost all of its arcs.

    If you didn't dig that vibe then, yeah, it's not a book for you. I don't think the current run is any more or less legitimate. I just think it's cool that they both have very clear directions they want to go in.
    Last edited by Cipher; 01-10-2015 at 03:19 PM.

  9. #69
    Incredible Member cgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrStatham View Post
    The thing is, Batwoman's nosedive wasn't really predictable. Andreyko, given the chance, is arguably a better writer than JHW3 or Blackman - his Manhunter run alone is proof of that; So the drop in quality and utterly terrible storylines really was a surprise for me.
    I think one problem is his characterisation of Kate. She went from haunted goth chick (a cliche for sure, but well-executed) to a somewhat hipsterish 30-something who has her share of zany times. Creepy Kate, with her pale skin, tattoos and thousand-yard stare, always came across as being perfectly capable of getting it on with a vampire chick or verbally jousting with the Demon. It was sort of her element. But hipster Kate, not so much.

    I believe the book would have done better if they'd doubled down on the gothic horror elements and kept Kate as a social outsider.

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