OMD/BND ruined the Black Cat so will she ever be redeemed as a character again ?

[Cmbmool]

Despite the various threads that focus on MJ and Peter and how much of a mess they currently are. Does anyone think that Black Cat has it worse of the whole OMD/BND/ETC deal ?

I mean her current status quo as the so call "Criminal Kingpin" is so going to end badly for her that I believe that she may end up "dead" in the end of all of this.

If anyone is a fan of the Black Cat does anyone believe that she needs a chance of redeeming her former character or at least some salvage of her current character ?

[Agent Z]

Yeah, Felicia lost a good deal of character development after BND. I really don't know why she couldn't remember Peter's identity. Maybe somewhere along the road she can be salvaged but I'm not holding my breath.

[cyberhubbs]

Nope. Black Cat without a lot of fiestiness, be it criminal or heroic, just isn't a Black Cat I wanna read about. The masked sex stuff was pretty entertaining.

Helps if you're not end-of-the-world serious about funny books.

[Cameron Samurai]

It always helps to expect something with quality and precision consistency in any material you are invested in, especially if it builds you up and influences you to be a more capable and creative writer with a great appreciation of the rich history and context of the world you want to eventually play about with in a future career.

People who settle for anything less just for giggles well and truly mystifies me, I feel such disregard is to blame for the encouragement of the lackluster quality we've had for nearly a decade. That is not something to be proud of.

Oh, and an easy solution: "anyone out-of-character is from an alternate world and is'nt reading the manuel", It's something Slott came up with. Work with it.

[Agent Z]

It always helps to expect something with quality and precision consistency in any material you are invested in, especially if it builds you up and influences you to be a more capable and creative writer with a great appreciation of the rich history and context of the world you want to eventually play about with in a future career.

People who settle for anything less just for giggles well and truly mystifies me, I feel such disregard is to blame for the encouragement of the lackluster quality we've had for nearly a decade. That is not something to be proud of.

Oh, and an easy solution: "anyone out-of-character is from an alternate world and is'nt reading the manuel", It's something Slott came up with. Work with it.

This seems to be common defense for fanboys of consumer media and comics are no exception. If they like it they'll praise it as the "best thing evah" but when it needs to be critiqued or scrutinized, then all of a sudden it's not something to be taken seriously.

[Cameron Samurai]

This seems to be common defense for fanboys of consumer media and comics are no exception. If they like it they'll praise it as the "best thing evah" but when it needs to be critiqued or scrutinized, then all of a sudden it's not something to be taken seriously.

I agree, too many times I hear "It's FUN" associated with the Spidey books. Sorry, "fun" does not necessarily mean you have to persistently revel in Peter going through perpetual twenty-teen puberty. You can have as much fun actually developing your brain as you read the characters develop their own, as the best writers of the vintage eras like DeMatties, DeFalco, and JMS proved. I'd rather have "Cerebral and thought-provoking" over "FUN" anyday.

[Vortex85]

Despite the various threads that focus on MJ and Peter and how much of a mess they currently are. Does anyone think that Black Cat has it worse of the whole OMD/BND/ETC deal ?

Felicia's attitude change can and might be explained away sometime in the future.

As for Peter and MJ, their entire lives were altered, such that many past stories are no longer valid (in that their motivations in the arcs no longer make sense).

Having them not being a married couple, many stories couldn't have happened the same way for the same reasons that you read them. Thus, it pretty much overwrites 20 years of comic book history with a new continuity that is unexplained and untold. We don't know Peter's history anymore in the same detail we once knew it. I don't think you can get worse than that.

[SpiderOrange]

BND / OMD didn't ruin Black Cat. SSM #20 ruined her, and that's continued in the first arc of this volume of ASM.

[boots]

I agree, too many times I hear "It's FUN" associated with the Spidey books. Sorry, "fun" does not necessarily mean you have to persistently revel in Peter going through perpetual twenty-teen puberty. You can have as much fun actually developing your brain as you read the characters develop their own, as the best writers of the vintage eras like DeMatties, DeFalco, and JMS proved. I'd rather have "Cerebral and thought-provoking" over "FUN" anyday.

mileage varies, even amongst the writers you listed. canon and continuity adherance does not guarantee (or even necessarily aid) intelligent story telling. intelligent writing tends to do that all on its own by being...intelligent. a certain amount of character cohesion is needed to allow the audience to suspend disbelief, but again, that mileage varies.

defalco received tonnes of hate mail during his fanfour run from old school fans who called him “evil one” and the man himself has described continuity obsessed stories as “boring”. the depth of dematteis’ writing comes from his understanding of psychology not his reverance for contuinuity (from memory he was quite happy to throw away decades of peter parker canon for ben reilly). i don’t really know jms’ work, but isn’t he the omd writer? and the fact that he wrote a fresh take on squadron supreme rather than playing in the shared sandbox, shows that he finds some value in a clean slate.

it's not either or. both approaches have strengths and weaknesses and can produce different results. there's no easy formula for success.

i've never seen anyone use the "it's just fun" excuse, but more power to them if that's the case. if they enjoy a comic on a visceral level, all well and good. it's not up to anyone to control how someone else should or shouldn't enjoy a work.

[theshow07]

Felicia's attitude change can and might be explained away sometime in the future.

As for Peter and MJ, their entire lives were altered, such that many past stories are no longer valid (in that their motivations in the arcs no longer make sense).

Having them not being a married couple, many stories couldn't have happened the same way for the same reasons that you read them. Thus, it pretty much overwrites 20 years of comic book history with a new continuity that is unexplained and untold. We don't know Peter's history anymore in the same detail we once knew it. I don't think you can get worse than that.

everything in peter history is still intact except for them being marriage

[Vortex85]

everything in peter history is still intact except for them being marriage

If that is the case, anwer me this:

1) Was MJ pregnant during the clone saga? If so, how did that happen given her stance on babies in OMIT?

2) If not, did MJ and Peter move to Portland? If so, why?

3) During the vol 2 era, since Peter gave up being Spider-Man, why wouldn't they get married since he is no longer Spider-Man?

4) During scenes in which Peter and MJ said how much their marriage meant to them, what did they say instead?

These are just some questions. It very unclear on the movtivations of the characters and what happened in place of their marriage. Thus, many stories can't be taken literally as they once were.

[RLAAMJR.]

a Black Cat ongoing solo would be awesome

[Mister Mets]

I disagree with the idea that OMD/ BND destroyed the character, but it's really not too difficult to redeem fictional characters.

[Vegeta]

What issue is that Dan Slott was citing as the reason why Felicia went back to crime??? According to Wikipedia her last 2 appearances were in Fearless Defenders where she helps Misty Knight and the Doom Maidens fight off evil and Daredevil where she helps Matt Murdock against the Black Spectre empire. (Both heroic roles.) Not to mention when she appeared in the "Big Time" arc she wanted Spidey to help her become an Avenger.

[Cmbmool]

I disagree with the idea that OMD/ BND destroyed the character, but it's really not too difficult to redeem fictional characters.

Well when Black Cat was reintroduced in BND fans complained about her lost of character growth and how it was dirty of PETER to use her like this when she didn't know whom he was.