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  1. #151
    Writer of Jack The Hunted Power Torch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bslythegamerguy View Post
    This line of books does indeed look fun but like I said before, the Crossgen void has never been fully restored and while Dynamite's pulp books, Project Superpowers, and PBS were close, they never truly made the pain go away. Also, those lines never felt like they were here to stay, and they weren't.

    God this looks fun, but I just can't take anymore comic heartache.
    Well it's up to you, but for me these sound to good to pass up. I want to support these titles in any way I can. I think given a chance these have a good chance of surviving. I just hope there is not a lot of people who won't give these a chance. Archie seems very dedicated to putting out some great new hero titles, with great talent. Also again PBS is not dead haha. Just saying :P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    the funny (and ironic?) thing is is that mindset/approach is just what contributes to it "not being worth it," as you point out.

    If you want the obscure indies to survive, then don't trade-wait them. Support them and order the singles.

    but quick side question out of curiosity:
    Are the 3 titles in a shared universe?
    I could not agree more, I only trade wait if I have to. The sales of the singles keep the series going. While I understand trade waiting if people really want to support the series buying the single issues is the best way to go.

    But that's just how I see things haha. Like I said I have trade waited before, if I have to. And I understand why people trade wait. Haha it does save me money when I do it. XD

    To answer your question, yes they are in the same universe. They don't have any crossovers planed yet or anything. They said they want to establish them in thier own series and the characters before and they don't want to weigh the writers down with plans right now. But yes the Dark Circle titles are in a shared universe. They said they could have some nods to one another I believe. Tiny easter egg like things I'd imagine, like background things (a tv talking about The Shield in The Black Hood for example) or stuff like that, but who knows.

    But I hope when we do get a crossover it's a outside mini series that does not effect the main titles to much or take them over. That way those who don't want to read it don't have to, or those who do just buy the mini series event. Or something like that haha. I plan to ask about a crossover and some other stuff at SDCC.
    Last edited by Power Torch; 02-08-2015 at 02:07 AM.

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  2. #152

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    I still think in today's market the best way to sell a comic as a small print publisher is in bursts of mini's. You can write the comic as if it's ongoing and just promote every 7th issue as a new #1. This makes casual fans buy into the first issue at the very least and allows the publisher to promote a new #1 fairly often. Ongoings never seem to work out anymore and by the time the 3rd or 4th issue rolls around the numbers start to show that ongoing books won't make the publisher the money they had hoped.

    One thing about this line that concerns me is that there is no big buzz around it aside from the usual suspects on the forum. My local LCS' have no promotional stuff for these books which lead me to belive the 4-5 stores around me aren't getting them, and aside from some good reviews on the web there isn't much drawing people to this line. Good reviews alone can't sell a book. I hope I'm wrong here, but I'm guessing by the 3rd issues Dark Circle will begin slapping the "3 of 6" tags on them in the previews and start talking about them being mini's, even though they weren't supposed to be. "Oh we had a planned end for this book!", when they clearly didn't. I truly have lost a lot of hope for ongoing all current and future indie comic universes.
    Last edited by Bslythegamerguy; 02-08-2015 at 06:50 AM.
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  3. #153
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    the funny (and ironic?) thing is is that mindset/approach is just what contributes to it "not being worth it," as you point out.

    If you want the obscure indies to survive, then don't trade-wait them. Support them and order the singles.
    But don't forget, my response wasn't a general response to new independently published books.

    It was specifically geared to Archie's Red/Dark Circle line, based on their past track records and a person's worry that he'll get mentally / emotionally invested in Archie's latest and greatest attempt to revive a line that has stumbled more than once in the past.

    I don't know if Archie has truly made any changes to their way of doing business beyond all these pie-in-the-sky-plans they TALK about that will increase the chances that this won't be another effort that starts big and then sputters like an old Yugo before breaking down on the side of a lonely highway, leaving readers stranded again with no answers in sight.

  4. #154
    Astonishing Member Overhazard's Avatar
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    I'm so excited for the Dark Tomorrow Special, I really loved rise of the heroes, and I liked the fox too. I hope it does well, and that the comet and jaguar get a spin off. Greg and Ivette were my favorites.
    When is it coming out? Same time as the black hood?

    Oh never mind, it comes out in march.

  5. #155
    pygophile and podophile Dr. Cheesesteak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Torch View Post
    I could not agree more, I only trade wait if I have to. The sales of the singles keep the series going. While I understand trade waiting if people really want to support the series buying the single issues is the best way to go.

    But that's just how I see things haha. Like I said I have trade waited before, if I have to. And I understand why people trade wait. Haha it does save me money when I do it. XD
    no doubt. I trade-wait too, but only for titles I:

    1. know will survive (i.e. indies by big name writers)
    2. know will read best in trade (i.e. Morrison, Hickman, Kot)
    3. am indifferent to its survival and am just curious about it (though I may still pick up the #1 to see if it really grabs me)
    4. know it's a planned mini and I want to save some $ (though sometimes I'll still buy the mini in singles), like you said

    I'll also say, once I trade-wait a title, I'll only pick it up in trades in the future. I like format consistency.

    In Archie's case, I'm always supportive of/curious when a publisher attempting something new as/for an entire line. New Valiant, Dark Horse's Project Blacky Sky were all lines/initiatives I supported upon their birth. Admittedly, I dropped most of the titles fairly quickly, though some I stuck it out with til the end.

    Part of me hopes the Dark Circle doesn't expand too much/too fast. 3 titles seems like a nice number to fill that niche for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Power Torch View Post
    To answer your question, yes they are in the same universe. They don't have any crossovers planed yet or anything. They said they want to establish them in thier own series and the characters before and they don't want to weigh the writers down with plans right now. But yes the Dark Circle titles are in a shared universe. They said they could have some nods to one another I believe. Tiny easter egg like things I'd imagine, like background things (a tv talking about The Shield in The Black Hood for example) or stuff like that, but who knows.

    But I hope when we do get a crossover it's a outside mini series that does not effect the main titles to much or take them over. That way those who don't want to read it don't have to, or those who do just buy the mini series event. Or something like that haha. I plan to ask about a crossover and some other stuff at SDCC.
    That's cool. I don't really mind about a crossover or anything, was just curious. Maybe there'll be some cool hidden connections or something. I always like shared U's, but never feel the titles need to be interactive.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But don't forget, my response wasn't a general response to new independently published books.

    It was specifically geared to Archie's Red/Dark Circle line, based on their past track records and a person's worry that he'll get mentally / emotionally invested in Archie's latest and greatest attempt to revive a line that has stumbled more than once in the past.

    I don't know if Archie has truly made any changes to their way of doing business beyond all these pie-in-the-sky-plans they TALK about that will increase the chances that this won't be another effort that starts big and then sputters like an old Yugo before breaking down on the side of a lonely highway, leaving readers stranded again with no answers in sight.
    I get that. Trade-waiting still doesn't help, though (although I'm unsure of Archie's past business history - have they cancelled well-selling books?). Besides, it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all! ...right?
    Comics were definitely happier, breezier and more confident in their own strengths before Hollywood and the Internet turned the business of writing superhero stories into the production of low budget storyboards or, worse, into conformist, fruitless attempts to impress or entertain a small group of people who appear to hate comics and their creators. -- Grant Morrison, 2008

  6. #156
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    . . . I get that. Trade-waiting still doesn't help, though (although I'm unsure of Archie's past business history - have they cancelled well-selling books?). Besides, it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all! ...right?
    As far as I know, they've never had that many "well-selling books". What HAS happened in the past is they start something, then there may likely be delays of a couple of weeks to even a couple of months. From there, you have to then wait and see if they may do anything further with all these great plans they had, or if they just drop to the wayside without anything said as to if they may still could happen or not.

    A perfect example is the more recent Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. #1 came out last fall to positive response from retailers, and then . . . NOTHING. We'd eventually see reports that the guy writing that as well as Afterlife with Archie got tied up overseeing a project to bring Archie to TV, but there was never anything official from the Archie company itself about what was going on or when they may be likely to be able to resume publishing the book. That, and the future solicitations they released would say such-and-such issue was due out a certain week three months out, but that wouldn't make any sense when we still had no idea when the long-overdue second issue would ever be released. It was just so poorly handled by Archie, it was pathetically amateurish.

  7. #157
    pygophile and podophile Dr. Cheesesteak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    As far as I know, they've never had that many "well-selling books". What HAS happened in the past is they start something, then there may likely be delays of a couple of weeks to even a couple of months. From there, you have to then wait and see if they may do anything further with all these great plans they had, or if they just drop to the wayside without anything said as to if they may still could happen or not.

    A perfect example is the more recent Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. #1 came out last fall to positive response from retailers, and then . . . NOTHING. We'd eventually see reports that the guy writing that as well as Afterlife with Archie got tied up overseeing a project to bring Archie to TV, but there was never anything official from the Archie company itself about what was going on or when they may be likely to be able to resume publishing the book. That, and the future solicitations they released would say such-and-such issue was due out a certain week three months out, but that wouldn't make any sense when we still had no idea when the long-overdue second issue would ever be released. It was just so poorly handled by Archie, it was pathetically amateurish.
    well, I'll just clarify real quick i meant well-selling relative to being Archie.

    But anyway, do we know if there's new editorial or management now? Maybe not a new EiC (google shows its been the same guy since at least 2008/9), but maybe some new influential editor ala Doyle at DC who may actually change things or make Archie get its S together?

    Again, this is also part of the reason why I said Dark Circle doesn't expand too fast/too much. I hope the publisher can let the line normalize and be handled within reasonable confines.
    Comics were definitely happier, breezier and more confident in their own strengths before Hollywood and the Internet turned the business of writing superhero stories into the production of low budget storyboards or, worse, into conformist, fruitless attempts to impress or entertain a small group of people who appear to hate comics and their creators. -- Grant Morrison, 2008

  8. #158
    Writer of Jack The Hunted Power Torch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    Part of me hopes the Dark Circle doesn't expand too much/too fast. 3 titles seems like a nice number to fill that niche for me.
    I know at NYCC last year they talked about having a new title in the works for wave two. And they gave us a hint about who it is. I think 3 or 4 ongoings is a great number to have. Maybe have some mini series here and there to try characters out or for crossover events. But I agree, I hope they don't go to fast for themselves.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    That, and the future solicitations they released would say such-and-such issue was due out a certain week three months out, but that wouldn't make any sense when we still had no idea when the long-overdue second issue would ever be released. It was just so poorly handled by Archie, it was pathetically amateurish.
    It seems that issue two may come out on the 25th of this month. At least thats what it says on TFAW and I believe someone said it was that way on Previews world.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    But anyway, do we know if there's new editorial or management now? Maybe not a new EiC (google shows its been the same guy since at least 2008/9), but maybe some new influential editor ala Doyle at DC who may actually change things or make Archie get its S together?

    Again, this is also part of the reason why I said Dark Circle doesn't expand too fast/too much. I hope the publisher can let the line normalize and be handled within reasonable confines.
    Well Alex Segura is the head editor for Dark Circle, so that is new I guess haha. But other then that I have no idea.

    I mean as far as I know the only really crazy delay they have had is Sabrina and they missed one month of Afterlife, I believe. The Sabrina writer was working on Riverdale (Archie TV show), so that is why it was delayed. So there is no reason to think that these will get delayed as well. It has a completely different staff on writers, artist, editors and so on then Sabrina and Afterlife. So I don't think Archie is doing to bad.

    I mean look at Dynamite, they have way to many delays compared to Archie (no hate to you Dynamite, I love a lot of titles they put out. Plus I don't mind delays too much, as long as they come out haha).

    But of course this is just my opinion based on the knowledge that I have currently have. I mean these could get delayed, (I don't think they will, just my opinion of course) but if they do its not for the same reason as Sabrina haha.

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  9. #159
    pygophile and podophile Dr. Cheesesteak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Torch View Post
    I mean look at Dynamite, they have way to many delays compared to Archie (no hate to you Dynamite, I love a lot of titles they put out. Plus I don't mind delays too much, as long as they come out haha).

    But of course this is just my opinion based on the knowledge that I have currently have. I mean these could get delayed, (I don't think they will, just my opinion of course) but if they do its not for the same reason as Sabrina haha.
    I'm w/ you, actually - I don't mind delays at all. I kind of have staggered reading habits anyway, and my wallet sure as heck doesn't mind delays, either.
    Comics were definitely happier, breezier and more confident in their own strengths before Hollywood and the Internet turned the business of writing superhero stories into the production of low budget storyboards or, worse, into conformist, fruitless attempts to impress or entertain a small group of people who appear to hate comics and their creators. -- Grant Morrison, 2008

  10. #160
    Spectacular Member Aomalle27's Avatar
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    Any idea on the wave 2 title? Don't think New crusaders since they refer to "a character" instead of characters in the referenced interview. Possibly The Fly? Jaguar? ???????

  11. #161
    Mighty Member Jody Garland's Avatar
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    They can't use Fly, as his rights went back to the Simon estate. Possibly Flygirl though.

  12. #162
    Writer of Jack The Hunted Power Torch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aomalle27 View Post
    Any idea on the wave 2 title? Don't think New crusaders since they refer to "a character" instead of characters in the referenced interview. Possibly The Fly? Jaguar? ???????
    Hint:
    There’s one character coming to Dark Circle that no one is going to see coming, Archie teased. A “deep cut”, not a “single or a B-side”.
    That's what was said about who it is. So I have no idea what they mean by any of that lol. But it's someone we won't see coming. Not sure what they mean by "deep cut" or a "single or a B-side". Haha I am at a loss. We may get a hint or preview of it in the FCBD issue. I can wait to see who it is though.
    Last edited by Power Torch; 02-08-2015 at 08:41 PM.

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  13. #163
    Mighty Member TheFerg714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Torch View Post
    That's what was said about who it is. So I have no idea what they mean by any of that lol. But it's someone we won't see coming. Not sure what they mean by "deep cut" or a "single or a B-side". Haha I am at a loss. We may get a hint or preview of it in the FCBD issue. I can wait to see who it is though.
    It means it's gonna be someone who only the huge fans will know about.
    The quote is referencing music albums. A deep-cut is a random track from an album that doesn't get any marketing, and only listeners of the entire album will know about it (usually when a song is called a deep-cut, it means it's very good as well). Singles are the most popular songs from an album, which get marketing pushes and radio play. And B-sides are the tracks that don't make it to the album, but get released later (if the band is popular enough; lately they're just included in the "deluxe editions.")

    So if anyone has listened to Kendrick Lamar's good kid, m.A.A.d. city:
    Singles: Swimming Pools (Drank); Bitch, Don't Kill My Vibe; m.A.A.d. city; Backseat Freestyle; Money Trees
    B-Sides: The Recipe (feat. Dr. Dre); Black Boy Fly; Bitch, Don't Kill My Vibe (Remix feat. Jay-Z)
    Deep Cuts: Sherane; Sing About Me; Real; Compton

    Well! Definitely didn't think I'd be talking about music on my first foray into the Dark Circle thread!
    Last edited by TheFerg714; 02-08-2015 at 09:25 PM.
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    DC- Justice League / Hal Jordan and the GLC / The Flash / Aquaman / Mera / Mister Miracle / Silencer / The Terrifics
    Other- The Walking Dead / Mighty Morphin Power Rangers / Go Go Power Rangers

  14. #164
    Writer of Jack The Hunted Power Torch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    It means it's gonna be someone who only the huge fans will know about.
    The quote is referencing music albums. A deep-cut is a random track from an album that doesn't get any marketing, and only listeners of the entire album will know about it (usually when a song is called a deep-cut, it means it's very good as well). Singles are the most popular songs from an album, which get marketing pushes and radio play. And B-sides are the tracks that don't make it to the album, but get released later (if the band is popular enough; lately they're just included in the "deluxe editions.")

    So if anyone has listened to Kendrick Lamar's good kid, m.A.A.d. city:
    Singles: Swimming Pools (Drank); Bitch, Don't Kill My Vibe; m.A.A.d. city; Backseat Freestyle; Money Trees
    B-Sides: The Recipe (feat. Dr. Dre); Black Boy Fly; Bitch, Don't Kill My Vibe (Remix feat. Jay-Z)
    Deep Cuts: Sherane; Sing About Me; Real; Compton

    Well! Definitely didn't think I'd be talking about music on my first foray into the Dark Circle thread!
    Oh haha. I had no idea that was a music reference. I thought they were references to the character Now I am really interested to see who it is. So basically you would have know a lot about the old Archie Superheroes to even guess who it is. I kinda like that haha. But I really hope we get to learn who it is in May. I am excited to learn who it is.

    Also welcome to the Dark Circle Thread haha :P.

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  15. #165
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    . . . The quote is referencing music albums. A deep-cut is a random track from an album that doesn't get any marketing, and only listeners of the entire album will know about it (usually when a song is called a deep-cut, it means it's very good as well). Singles are the most popular songs from an album, which get marketing pushes and radio play. And B-sides are the tracks that don't make it to the album, but get released later (if the band is popular enough; lately they're just included in the "deluxe editions.")
    Older reference to singles/B-sides (for you youngsters) has to do with radio play and when songs were produced on 45 rpm records.

    "Singles" would refer to the 45 rpm records since they only had one song on the side. (45 rpm and even earlier 78 rpm moved faster, so they needed a larger space for an individual song than a slower 33⅓ album.) The "A" side was the main song they were pushing for airplay / song expected to be more popular. The "B" side was the song on the other side of the single, which was usually a different song from the album the A-side song came from, but not being pushed by the record company and not expected to be as popular. But sometimes, the "B" side tune would get airplay and actually become a bigger hit than the A-side song the record company had been promoting as a possibly popular tune.


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