The Atom (Ray Palmer) Appreciation Thread

[Rogue Star]

I think WB still wants Jaime Reyes to be known as Blue Beetle so they said no to using Ted plus they probably wanted to promote Ray Palmer before the Ant-Man movie comes out. I just hope he shrinks down to microscopic size at least once.

From what I recall reading, there isn't going to be any sort of shrinking going on. Not on Arrow. Maybe The Flash.

[liwanag]

From what I recall reading, there isn't going to be any sort of shrinking going on. Not on Arrow. Maybe The Flash.

that's too bad then. no shrinking powers, not a professor in ivy university but a ceo of queen consolidated, not a physicist, love interest is felicity instead of jean (which is actually better)...

well, at least his is still named ray palmer, and has an armour with a red and blue color scheme...

[KurtW95]

Hope we can get the shrinking at some point. Haing him in a suit that flies around basically makes him nothing more than DC's Iron Man.

[Herowatcher]

Doesn't Shrink...not good. Not a fan of the suit either...could've been better IMHO.

The Fantastic Four looked good in the movies, so I think a similar look could've worked for
a TV series with The Atom.

[KurtW95]

Doesn't Shrink...not good. Not a fan of the suit either...could've been better IMHO.

The Fantastic Four looked good in the movies, so I think a similar look could've worked for
a TV series with The Atom.

I was expecting something sort of like the CW Flash costume, except Atom colors.

[themiddle]

Doesn't Shrink...not good. Not a fan of the suit either...could've been better IMHO.

the armor looked ok by me, the helmet though could use a little tweaking i think.

[AdamFTF]

And, considering the direction they have gone they could've used Hardware, Steel (John Henry Irons), Technocrat, Mento, Firebrand III, Atomic Knight, Skyrocket, S.T.R.I.P.E. (who actually is an old team-mate of the original Green Arrow) or just created a new Manhunter, one who designed and created his own armored costume similar to the android ones.

All of whom would have made more sense and involved less changing than this lame non-attempt with Ray Palmer.

Part of the issue might have been personality. I think they wanted someone funny and quirky to seem like a good match for Felicity (like I said: quirky, wise-cracking tech billionaire does sound a lot more like Ted Kord). Judging from old issues of Hawkman and the Atom, Power of the Atom and even some episodes of Justice League Unlimited, Ray has shown such a personality in the past.

It's an interesting contrast. Keep the personality (well, from some versions) and change the powers for Atom, keep the powers/skills and change the personality for Green Arrow.

[Starchild]

Mento & Steel (who might be appearing on The Flash) would've been perfect. I know that this is their own take, which is common in the comic book fandom......but this was upsetting. They should have just put Atom on The Flash.

[liwanag]

i wonder if the budget affected the decision to change ray palmer's power set. it probably cost more to render in cgi if ray constantly shrank.

[Robotman]

I think the release of Ant-Man had something to do with DCE wanting to get Ray Palmer out there on Arrow. Draw interest to the character. But maybe the show runners were pretty set in their ways that the character would be far more like Ted Kord.

[thetrellan]

DC Forum Appreciation Thread rules:

1) No negative comments about the honoree of this thread. It's an appreciation thread, not a non-appreciation one.

2) No negative discussion about any competitors of the honoree of this thread (i.e. John Stewart in the Hal Jordan thread). No ifs, ands, or buts. Find another non-appreciation thread to do that, just not here.

3) No negative comments about other versions of the character. For example, if you like the DCU version of Cyborg, but hate the DCnU version (or visa versa), just appreciate the earlier version and keep your comments about the latter to yourself.

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The Atom in Arrow

Attachment 15414


A possible angle for an new Atom ongoing...the Unobserved Universe.

Besides the microverse the Atom with the SHADE organization should be able to go into parts of the Universe that is unobservable. There's a theory in Physics called the reciprocal perspective which says that there is a material sector and a cosmic sector. Also if you use the African saying of As above So Below and apply it to the atoms in our bodies and other solid objects you will find that the atoms in objects are a mirror of what's out their in space.
Consequently, the Atom can theoretically see the 'unobserved' Universe by being inside the micro-verse.
In the reciprocal perspective theory it says that
The material sector is our common reference frame that contains the observable and measurable structure of the universe, the cosmic sector remains unobservable and unmeasurable to our physical senses, though we can see it's effects on how time changes space. Those effects being called Force Fields (electric and magnetic fields). We cannot see a magnetic line of force until it interacts with a material object such as iron filings and alters their behavior in space.

The atom can investigate magnetic lines in the unobserved Universe which are having effects on Earth such as maybe freak storms, virus, people turning into Zombies.

I was thinking the other day about how Ant Man never seemed to get enough momentum to carry an ongoing series in much the same way as the Atom or Aquaman. And I think in both Atom and Ant Man's cases the reason is the same: the characters would be best served as vehicles for science fiction, and comic book writers tend to ignore science in favor of action. Plus, how many writers really feel qualified today to write SF?

I was on FB today, looking at a conversation which began with semantics and graduated quickly into it's real topic, the cloud (the semantics were just a lead-in). Apparently the people involved were experts. It was as if they were speaking another language. How do you write science-based fantasy (which is all science fiction is really) when modern science is so specialized that English becomes a cipher?

My point is that finding a proper writer for true science heroes would probably be difficult. If DC can find a successful Atom writer, they should try like hell to keep them for the next hundred issues.

[Ed Love]

I was thinking the other day about how Ant Man never seemed to get enough momentum to carry an ongoing series in much the same way as the Atom or Aquaman. And I think in both Atom and Ant Man's cases the reason is the same: the characters would be best served as vehicles for science fiction, and comic book writers tend to ignore science in favor of action. Plus, how many writers really feel qualified today to write SF?

I was on FB today, looking at a conversation which began with semantics and graduated quickly into it's real topic, the cloud (the semantics were just a lead-in). Apparently the people involved were experts. It was as if they were speaking another language. How do you write science-based fantasy (which is all science fiction is really) when modern science is so specialized that English becomes a cipher?

My point is that finding a proper writer for true science heroes would probably be difficult. If DC can find a successful Atom writer, they should try like hell to keep them for the next hundred issues.

It is interesting that the GA Doll Man, who is pretty much the template the later heroes are based on, had a longer and successful title run despite being saddled with a lamer name, outlasting most of his contemporaries. And, is mostly forgotten today.

Even Al Pratt Atom was one of the more successful JSA characters. He is second in his appearances with the GA JSA stories, behind Hawkman. I also think the basic idea of the character would make a good supporting cast member on the shows, his original costume only needing some minor tweaking (maybe get rid of the shorts).

I thought the Ryan Choi Atom series was very well done, balancing the action with science fiction and odd-ball threats. That it failed I think speaks a lot to the current comic marketplace and the marketing of comics in general. Too much is a "build it and they will come" approach. A strong SF writer alone is not going to make it a success.

Maybe if they did digital first, build up interest and readership and releasing the stories in print after they are completed as a single "novel". Or scrap comics, and actually release some well-written novels with some of the top artists doing the covers and a few interior illustrations. Both DC & Marvel have tons of great characters that are either languishing or the companies completely overhaul and trash what went before in trying to make a blockbuster success. And, when it fails as 75% of them do, they have another failed attempt and lost the original which generally had the most potential. Maybe they should try looking at the untapped markets first, and see what characters AND formats they could use to reach them AND not concern themselves with trying to get those readers buying a half dozen other books and whatever current crossover/event. Aim for a series of small successes instead of gouging the same readership over and over for more or their wallet. I gave up Batman and Superman books a long time ago because I could not afford to get every book of the line and about once a year, a Family-wide storyline would co-opt the one book I was reading. The best continuity is one of consistency and non-contradiction if possible. IE you had familiar companies, organizations, concepts, villains to make the books seem part of the same universe without actually requiring reading the whole line to stay up to date.

Another rule of thumb-- if a costume is designed by Gil Kane, minor tweaks are ok, but you should otherwise probably leave it alone.

Ray Palmer I think works best as the go-to research science/physicist guy in the JLA. Problem was he was introduced at a time when everyone was a super-scientist. Any character with a basic scientific background was working on fantastic inventions that had nothing to do really with their specialty. Even Batman and Superman were building super computers. And, it's hard for DC to pull back from that. Ted Kord's background seems to be engineering, aeronautics and possibly robotics. Barry is a forensic scientist (so lots of biology and chemistry), etc. So, he's not necessarily a heavy hitter, but invaluable as part of specialized missions ala how Busiek had him figure prominently in the JLA/Avengers, at a time when the Atom was being rarely used at DC.

[thetrellan]

It is interesting that the GA Doll Man, who is pretty much the template the later heroes are based on, had a longer and successful title run despite being saddled with a lamer name, outlasting most of his contemporaries. And, is mostly forgotten today.

Even Al Pratt Atom was one of the more successful JSA characters. He is second in his appearances with the GA JSA stories, behind Hawkman. I also think the basic idea of the character would make a good supporting cast member on the shows, his original costume only needing some minor tweaking (maybe get rid of the shorts).

I thought the Ryan Choi Atom series was very well done, balancing the action with science fiction and odd-ball threats. That it failed I think speaks a lot to the current comic marketplace and the marketing of comics in general. Too much is a "build it and they will come" approach. A strong SF writer alone is not going to make it a success.

Maybe if they did digital first, build up interest and readership and releasing the stories in print after they are completed as a single "novel". Or scrap comics, and actually release some well-written novels with some of the top artists doing the covers and a few interior illustrations. Both DC & Marvel have tons of great characters that are either languishing or the companies completely overhaul and trash what went before in trying to make a blockbuster success. And, when it fails as 75% of them do, they have another failed attempt and lost the original which generally had the most potential. Maybe they should try looking at the untapped markets first, and see what characters AND formats they could use to reach them AND not concern themselves with trying to get those readers buying a half dozen other books and whatever current crossover/event. Aim for a series of small successes instead of gouging the same readership over and over for more or their wallet. I gave up Batman and Superman books a long time ago because I could not afford to get every book of the line and about once a year, a Family-wide storyline would co-opt the one book I was reading. The best continuity is one of consistency and non-contradiction if possible. IE you had familiar companies, organizations, concepts, villains to make the books seem part of the same universe without actually requiring reading the whole line to stay up to date.

Another rule of thumb-- if a costume is designed by Gil Kane, minor tweaks are ok, but you should otherwise probably leave it alone.

Ray Palmer I think works best as the go-to research science/physicist guy in the JLA. Problem was he was introduced at a time when everyone was a super-scientist. Any character with a basic scientific background was working on fantastic inventions that had nothing to do really with their specialty. Even Batman and Superman were building super computers. And, it's hard for DC to pull back from that. Ted Kord's background seems to be engineering, aeronautics and possibly robotics. Barry is a forensic scientist (so lots of biology and chemistry), etc. So, he's not necessarily a heavy hitter, but invaluable as part of specialized missions ala how Busiek had him figure prominently in the JLA/Avengers, at a time when the Atom was being rarely used at DC.

Totally with you about the Gil Kane design.

An important thing to remember about the 50s and 60s is how so much of SF got attention in books, film, and television. The space race was born at that time, and SF writers with authentic backgrounds in science were put to work writing, to put these things forward in the public eye. If so many hadn't been eager to write this stuff, it would almost be considered a kind of propaganda.

When Dollman and Pratt were popular, few readers were well acquainted with the science that science fiction was based on. Simply the idea of a shrinking man was exotic enough to capture the imagination. I agree, though, that today's writer needs more than science alone can provide.

It's now necessary to capture and hold the reader's attention first, and that is a science all its own. In film, it's been proven- to me at least- that too much action can put a viewer to sleep as surely as too little. The adaptation of "We Can Remember it For You Wholesale", which was recently released as a remake of Total Recall, actually put me to sleep twice via overstimulation- first in the theater, then again at home a couple years later.

[themiddle]

Hope we can get the shrinking at some point. Haing him in a suit that flies around basically makes him nothing more than DC's Iron Man.

i haven't seen the episode on the arrow yet. are there any indications that ray might develop size altering powers?

[Robotman]

i haven't seen the episode on the arrow yet. are there any indications that ray might develop size altering powers?

No but in his first appearance he had his mini computer on his belt which very much reminded me of where the Atom keeps his shrinking device. Probably intentionally done.

If he's not gonna shrink then he's the Atom in name only. He doesn't really have Ray's characteristics or backstory (There was never a Palmer Industries and he hasn't made mention of Ivy University) and of course he apparently won't have the Atom's trademark powers. So this whole thing is kinda disappointing.