"The World's Greatest Archer": Green Arrow Appreciation!

[ed2962]

GA #31 was pretty great. Finally the Justice League actually consider him a worthy ally; hell they even offered him a place on the League. I wish he could've said yes, because I'm not a fan of the current lineup, but I understand his decision. All around a great issue and great arc.

If thing go well for me, I'll get #31 tomorrow.

The cover to #30 is Mike Grell doing an homage to himself I think? I have no idea which issue number it's for or if it was a promotional image but it's from the 70's correct?

[Sam]

I just realized how easy and obvious it would be to re-introduce Mia (A poor prostitute) as a teenager taken by The Ninth Circle who the Arrow Family rescues.

I'm not really sure Mia would fit in at the moment. The book has a really large cast already with Oliver, Emi, Dinah, and Henry regularly appearing and Roy and Diggle showing up on in a seemingly large capacity. Emi is already filling the teen sidekick role anyway. Not against Mia coming back ever, but I only think they should do it if it fits the story and they have an important role for her to play.

They already tried reintroducing Mia in the New52 after all, and it was fairly meh. They should only do it if it is the best story to tell.

[Assam]

I'm not really sure Mia would fit in at the moment. The book has a really large cast already with Oliver, Emi, Dinah, and Henry regularly appearing and Roy and Diggle showing up on in a seemingly large capacity. Emi is already filling the teen sidekick role anyway. Not against Mia coming back ever, but I only think they should do it if it fits the story and they have an important role for her to play.

Is there a single person who would rather see more of Henry than get Mia back? Probability dictates "Yes", but you know what I mean. Probably a bit larger amount of people who like Diggle more, but same deal.

A mute point anyway since Connor's coming back, meaning the cast is going to get larger anway.

[Sam]

Is there a single person who would rather see more of Henry than get Mia back? Probability dictates "Yes", but you know what I mean. Probably a bit larger amount of people who like Diggle more, but same deal.

A mute point anyway since Connor's coming back, meaning the cast is going to get larger anway.

But Henry serves an entirely different function. Mia isn't suddenly going to be the tech person. Likewise, Diggle opens the possibility for Ollie to have different types of friendships and different types of stories. What stories would Mia add? Her role on the team would already filled by Emi (teen sidekick with a dark past and razor sharp quips) or Roy (ex-sidekick with a dark past and rocky relationship with Ollie). Again, I'm not against the idea of her coming back, I just think there needs to be more of a reason than Mia was a character people liked. She needs to add something to the story.

Connor, on the other hand, could create an interesting new dynamic for the book and the characters.

[Assam]

But Henry serves an entirely different function. Mia isn't suddenly going to be the tech person. Likewise, Diggle opens the possibility for Ollie to have different types of friendships and different types of stories. What stories would Mia add? Her role on the team would already filled by Emi (teen sidekick with a dark past and razor sharp quips) or Roy (ex-sidekick with a dark past and rocky relationship with Ollie). Again, I'm not against the idea of her coming back, I just think there needs to be more of a reason than Mia was a character people liked. She needs to add something to the story.

In theory, I agree with you. Characters shouldn't be in a story if they have no role to play. HOWEVER, in comics, and specifically, where characters can get erased from existence, its where I start to disagree. If a character exists but isn't being used, another writer can at least use them in their book if they DO have a role for them. If they don't and they have to go through the trouble of re-establishing them, they may be less inclined. And when it comes to sidekick characters, because of how tied down to their franchise they are, it's even less likely.

Plus, I DO think she would serve a different role. She'd be the bubbly rookie. The Stephanie Brown. Emi may be a sidekick, but she's almost as skilled as Oli and you wouldn't exactly catch her watching Power Poofs. Hell, if you still think Oli having two teenage sidekicks at once is too much, maybe mix it up this time around and focus more on Mia being Connor's partner. Speaking of...

Connor, on the other hand, could create an interesting new dynamic for the book and the characters.

So long as Percy doesn't change him, he definitely should.

[Frontier]

I think Emi kind of fulfills the teen sidekick role, but at the same time she's also lampshaded or subverted it, on-top of being Ollie's sister which also effects that dynamic.

Even the codename she picked is Red Arrow, which is something associated with Roy as a full-fledged hero and not linked to a sidekick role like Speedy is.

If writers ever want Ollie to have a more traditional sidekick again, I feel like that'll be when Mia comes back. That opening is always going to be there so long as no one else is using the Speedy identity.

[Sam]

In theory, I agree with you. Characters shouldn't be in a story if they have no role to play. HOWEVER, in comics, and specifically, where characters can get erased from existence, its where I start to disagree. If a character exists but isn't being used, another writer can at least use them in their book if they DO have a role for them. If they don't and they have to go through the trouble of re-establishing them, they may be less inclined. And when it comes to sidekick characters, because of how tied down to their franchise they are, it's even less likely.

Again, she essentially been reestablished in the new continuity during the New52. She's out there. She's just not being used. Any writer is free to use her it would see. But that doesn't mean they are obligated to. Not every character is going to be used all the time.

Plus, I DO think she would serve a different role. She'd be the bubbly rookie. The Stephanie Brown. Emi may be a sidekick, but she's almost as skilled as Oli and you wouldn't exactly catch her watching Power Poofs. Hell, if you still think Oli having two teenage sidekicks at once is too much, maybe mix it up this time around and focus more on Mia being Connor's partner. Speaking of...

So long as Percy doesn't change him, he definitely should.

I could totally see Emi getting into a Powerpuff Girls knockoff. Anyway, even if Mia had a separate distinct personality, that doesn't mean she'd add anything to the story or that her presence wouldn't cause everyone to gasp for airtime.

Additionally, given Ollie's age, my guess would be Connor is probably going to be a little younger than we've previously seen. Not sure how much of a change that constitutes.

[Assam]

I think Emi kind of fulfills the teen sidekick role, but at the same time she's also lampshaded or subverted it, on-top of being Ollie's sister which also effects that dynamic.

Yeah. The sibling thing alone makes it different. And as she says, they're partners, she's not his sidekick.

Even the codename she picked is Red Arrow, which is something associated with Roy as a full-fledged hero and not linked to a sidekick role like Speedy is.

Since Red Arrow was the name Roy had during his JL years, does that mean she outranks him?

Anyway, even if Mia had a separate distinct personality, that doesn't mean she'd add anything to the story or that her presence wouldn't cause everyone to gasp for airtime.

As far as space to breathe goes, the book currently only has 3 main characters, Oli, Dinah and Emi. Henry is a supporting character, and Roy and Diggle only appear sporadically.

And much like Roy and Diggle, she wouldn't need to be in every story. Only when she's needed.

Of course, this is just based off what we've got currently. My ideal GA book would look radically different from this.

Additionally, given Ollie's age, my guess would be Connor is probably going to be a little younger than we've previously seen. Not sure how much of a change that constitutes.

That's fine, so long as he's no more than a couple years younger than Wally and Kyle. Things that I CAN'T accept include: Making him Diggle's son like on Legends of Tomorrow, whitewashing, changing his upbringing, and him no longer being one of the nicest guys out there.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

One thing I always appreciated about Marvel back in the day: no teenage sidekicks.

[Frontier]

Yeah. The sibling thing alone makes it different. And as she says, they're partners, she's not his sidekick.

Well, to be fair, I think every sidekick says that at some point .

Since Red Arrow was the name Roy had during his JL years, does that mean she outranks him?

I'm sure she'd like to think so...

Of course, this is just based off what we've got currently. My ideal GA book would look radically different from this.

I can imagine .

One thing I always appreciated about Marvel back in the day: no teenage sidekicks.

It's not really the DCU without sidekicks though.

[Assam]

Well, to be fair, I think every sidekick says that at some point .

True, true

But I think unlike most, Emi can actually back up that claim.

It's not really the DCU without sidekicks though.

Their absence was one of the many reasons the Nu52 was so awful.

[Frontier]

True, true

But I think unlike most, Emi can actually back up that claim.

Well, certainly that's how writers have been spinning her for quite some time.

Their absence was one of the many reasons the Nu52 was so awful.

I wouldn't say it's what made the New 52 awful, but it did make it feel less whole or more weird without them around or in their traditional roles.

[Assam]

I wouldn't say it's what made the New 52 awful, but it did make it feel less whole or more weird without them around or in their traditional roles.

Well yeah, I did just say one of the "many" reasons, and you elaborated why it was one. I'm pretty sure you could write a decent sized book detailing all of the Nu52's problems and shortcomings.

[Sam]

As far as space to breathe goes, the book currently only has 3 main characters, Oli, Dinah and Emi. Henry is a supporting character, and Roy and Diggle only appear sporadically.

And much like Roy and Diggle, she wouldn't need to be in every story. Only when she's needed.

Again, I'm not convinced she's currently needed.

Of course, this is just based off what we've got currently. My ideal GA book would look radically different from this.

I'm perfectly happy with Percy's version. I wouldn't call it the best run ever, but it's pretty strong.

That's fine, so long as he's no more than a couple years younger than Wally and Kyle. Things that I CAN'T accept include: Making him Diggle's son like on Legends of Tomorrow, whitewashing, changing his upbringing, and him no longer being one of the nicest guys out there.

Wally and Kyle are seemingly over 20, Connor, if he appeared, would probably have to be under that, since Ollie can't be more than 35. Personally, I'm okay with a little variation (no whitewashing though). One character can be interpreted in multiple different ways, but Connor's decency was always the core of the character, so hopefully that will remain. Either way, I trust Percy with this book at this point. I'm down for whatever he has coming up.

[liwanag]