"The World's Greatest Archer": Green Arrow Appreciation!

[Sam]

Nope. We know he was pulled off because he said he had another story he wanted to do about Connor. Looks like DC pulled him off so they could put him on Nightwing after Humphries was moved to Harley Quinn.

I'm not sure. There's a difference between getting pulled off, and deciding now was the time to leave even though you still have stories you want to tell. When Percy's been interviewed about it, he seems to indicate it was his decision to leave. Like he had done 52 issues, and that seemed to be the right number for him and he wanted to do something darker.

It seems kind of like when Lemire left. It seemed very sudden and people assumed he was removed since he had other ideas he might have explored more, but in really Sorrentino wanted to do other things and Lemire didn't want to do it without him. Sometimes people leave of their own free will, even if there is more stories they have to tell. I think that's the case here.

[Frontier]

By making her yet another teenager?

Yeah. Though they made Damian into a teen around the same time they did Emiko, so maybe they were trying to match the ages ?

But at least is logical for them considering the current Jeff's age.

I know, but the point still stands. And I don't think too many people would be fussed to see a Jefferson that's depicted in his prime still have young daughters, since comic aging is notoriously inconsistent.

And let's be honest, unlike Jeff, is not like Ollie was a great father (all the contrary in fact).

But that was part of the point of his relationship with Connor, and him trying to be better and improve on that failing.

You turn Connor into a half-brother and he's basically a male Emiko in all but personality.

Not unless they bring back his most extreme aspects, other than that the more balanced Connor feels out of place.

I don't think they need to make Ollie more extreme just to make Connor fit. I think Connor would work fine with current Ollie.

[Rakzo]

Yeah. Though they made Damian into a teen around the same time they did Emiko, so maybe they were trying to match the ages ?

But at least Damian still looks like Damian.

Emiko does not.

I know, but the point still stands. And I don't think too many people would be fussed to see a Jefferson that's depicted in his prime still have young daughters, since comic aging is notoriously inconsistent.

I guess Anissa and Jennifer could have worked as children to be fair.

But that was part of the point of his relationship with Connor, and him trying to be better and improve on that failing.

But that's the point of Oliver Queen: He tries, but he never succeeds at being better.

Roy is the one who tries and succeeds.

You turn Connor into a half-brother and he's basically a male Emiko in all but personality.

And personality is what matters at the end isn't it?

I don't think they need to make Ollie more extreme just to make Connor fit. I think Connor would work fine with current Ollie.

Sorry, but that goes against the whole premise of Connor.

[Assam]

Are you kidding me? I f*cking love Connor! As I always say, he's the complete antithesis of Ollie which ultimately makes him a much better man but as things currently are, he doesn't work as well since sadly Ollie has lost most of his distinctive negative traits.

Fair enough, although I disagree. It isn't as if his character needs to be written like Percy has going forward. Personally I liked this take on the character, but I do wish he had more of the flaws that made him a major ass. I also don't see the contrast between Connor and Ollie as the end all, be all of the character. While their being opposites in personality made for a terrific dynamic, I also adore Connor on his own and his time as the solo Green Arrow.

By making her yet another teenager?

Do you also have a problem whenever DC introduces 'another adult'? It's not like they're all written the same.

But at least is logical for them considering the current Jeff's age.

Nothing at this point in the DCU makes sense if you think about it for two seconds. If it ever was, it's no longer worth sacrificing good characters and relationships for the sake of a coherent universe, because that just isn't something we're ever going to have again.

I guess Anissa and Jennifer could have worked as children to be fair.

Reducing them to children still takes away one of the earliest prominent lesbian relationships in DC and makes any potential future interactions with Grace super creepy.

[Rakzo]

Do you also have a problem whenever DC introduces 'another adult'? It's not like they're all written the same.

Well, yes unless there's something particularly interesting about them.

There are way too many adults and teenagers around the DCU.

Nothing at this point in the DCU makes sense if you think about it for two seconds. If it ever was, it's no longer worth sacrificing good characters and relationships for the sake of a coherent universe, because that just isn't something we're ever going to have again.

Things should have been better executed around the DCU as a whole.

Reducing them to children still takes away one of the earliest prominent lesbian relationships in DC and makes any potential future interactions with Grace super creepy.

Turning Anissa into a child doesn't mean that they take away her orientation. Hell, at Marvel it seems like they're going to make Gabby, X-23's little clone/sister, Lesbian.

Also, who says that Grace can't be reintroduced as a kid? (Thinking about it, I think I would love to see that).

[Assam]

Things should have been better executed around the DCU as a whole.

That sums up the last 15 years pretty well.

Turning Anissa into a child doesn't mean that they take away her orientation. Hell, at Marvel it seems like they're going to make Gabby, X-23's little clone/sister, Lesbian.

Also, who says that Grace can't be reintroduced as a kid? (Thinking about it, I think I would love to see that).

Never said they'd take away her orientation, just the relationship. I'm really not sure how Grace as a kid would work, but it could be interesting, if just not what I'd prefer.

LOVE Gabby by the way and I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of relationship her older self is in in Old Woman Laura.

[Frontier]

But at least Damian still looks like Damian.

Emiko does not.

Emiko looks like an older version of herself from Lemire's run.

I guess Anissa and Jennifer could have worked as children to be fair.

Well, they are kids in DC Super Hero Girls and those DC Nation shorts but you could probably have them both be teenagers and that could still work with a Jefferson in his relative prime.

But that's the point of Oliver Queen: He tries, but he never succeeds at being better.

Roy is the one who tries and succeeds.

Personally I don't have that kind of view of Ollie even if I agree with that statement about Roy (to a degree).

And personality is what matters at the end isn't it?

I think it's a factor, but just one factor.

Sorry, but that goes against the whole premise of Connor.

I don't think it does.

Fair enough, although I disagree. It isn't as if his character needs to be written like Percy has going forward. Personally I liked this take on the character, but I do wish he had more of the flaws that made him a major ass. I also don't see the contrast between Connor and Ollie as the end all, be all of the character. While their being opposites in personality made for a terrific dynamic, I also adore Connor on his own and his time as the solo Green Arrow.

I think Ollie was still a major @#%&, it just didn't get in the way of him being a hero and doing good, which I appreciated.

[Rakzo]

Emiko looks like an older version of herself from Lemire's run.

Not with that vastly inferior haircut.

And that was not my point, my point is that Damian still looks like a kid.

I don't think it does.

But it does. Why do you think that Connor was created as a naive, calmed and borderline asexual guy?

[Frontier]

Not with that vastly inferior haircut.

And that was not my point, my point is that Damian still looks like a kid.

Ah, I like Emiko's current haircut .

My argument was never that they didn't age Emi up, because I acknowledge that they did in Rebirth.

But it does. Why do you think that Connor was created as a naive, calmed and borderline asexual guy?

And that still can't contrast with the current Oliver?

[Rakzo]

And that still can't contrast with the current Oliver?

Not really because Ollie is not the same lying, volatile and promiscuous guy (as bad as this might sound, an Oliver Queen who doesn't cheat on Dinah is simply not Oliver Queen).

[Frontier]

Not really because Ollie is not the same lying, volatile and promiscuous guy (as bad as this might sound, an Oliver Queen who doesn't cheat on Dinah is simply not Oliver Queen).

(Shrugs) I don't really subscribe to that belief.

I think Oliver still has plenty of issues in his current depiction that would contrast well with an in-character Connor.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Ennis doing a run on GA would be cool but I rather he do it in one of the imprints than in the main DCU. Him doing a GA title in DC Black (this needs a better name) or on Earth one would be ideal.

Johns is telling his own finite run over on Earth One with Batman so Ennis doing the same would with GA would do wonders.

With Connor, him being Ollie's half-brother would have worked in the New 52 because Ollie was in his early 20s. Him being a young adult gives off a different vibe than Ollie's new dynamic with Emiko and makes him the Sixth Ranger of the Arrow family. He can help out and keep the peace between Ollie and the others but he has a life of his own that doesn't require him to be a fulltime member.

You could have him be an up and coming member of the Fist clan (or the spear) and deal with mystical threats in addition to street level social aspects like Ollie does.

[Ra-El]

Ennis doing a run on GA would be cool but I rather he do it in one of the imprints than in the main DCU. Him doing a GA title in DC Black (this needs a better name) or on Earth one would be ideal.

Johns is telling his own finite run over on Earth One with Batman so Ennis doing the same would with GA would do wonders.

With Connor, him being Ollie's half-brother would have worked in the New 52 because Ollie was in his early 20s. Him being a young adult gives off a different vibe than Ollie's new dynamic with Emiko and makes him the Sixth Ranger of the Arrow family. He can help out and keep the peace between Ollie and the others but he has a life of his own that doesn't require him to be a fulltime member.

You could have him be an up and coming member of the Fist clan (or the spear) and deal with mystical threats in addition to street level social aspects like Ollie does.

Ennis writing GA in any universe would be amazing. His Hitman was on the main universe and it worked just fine, and I don't think that Tommy ever did anything that Ollie would not do. I mean, on Lemire run he was burning people alive and thinking how cool his new incendiary arrows was.
So even if Ennis would write his GA as a really violent character it wouldn't be something that new.

[TheNewFiftyForum]

I thought #39 was the strongest issue since the Lemire/Sorrentino run, pretty much a home run apart from the overdesigned villain.

[Daniel22]

I thought #39 was the strongest issue since the Lemire/Sorrentino run, pretty much a home run apart from the overdesigned villain.

Nice! I thought Percy had a pretty good run. I liked it more than all the new 52 stuff except Lemire. But I am still ready to see what the new team can bring.