Wonder Woman in Superman: Doomed

[brettc1]

I say it did.

Then we disagree. The panels cannot lead me to support that conclusion.

[brettc1]

But after that she was still ready to continue to fight, but Doomsday escaped after her battle cry xD. How can you know she wouldn't have been able to free herself? She wasn't defeated, Clark just happened to arrive.

The logic of the story.

Reposting from the other thread...

The mission here is to make Superman look awesome. Wonder Woman is just the collateral damage towards that end because everyone knows she is a tank that can take some big hits. You couldn't substitute her here with Batman or even the Flash, because you want someone with a level of invulnerability and the ability to hit hard enough to show that Doomsday is a real powerhouse and nigh unstoppable.

As I mentioned on the other thread, this is not the first time Wonder Woman has been used by writers for this purpose. The Superman story The Man Who Has Everything did exactly the same thing - Wonder Woman fights a brave but futile battle with Mongul until Superman can get in the game.

The story is entirely based on the premise that anyone else fighting Doomsday is going to have their backside handed to them. This is even stated explicitly. We start with the fighter jets, work up to Steel, and then finish with Diana. At each stage the threat of Doomsday is affirmed and enhanced. She did not inflict any serious damage because her best hit with the sword slowed him for all of ten seconds and then she doenst even have that anymore. I suppose the writers might have done something completely insane and had her actually use the lasso but Doomsday in on her in heartbeat. She doesn't block the attack because the panel with him charging shows that the split second before he connects the heat vision sends him reeling back.

[Blacksun]

The logic of the story.

Reposting from the other thread...

The mission here is to make Superman look awesome. Wonder Woman is just the collateral damage towards that end because everyone knows she is a tank that can take some big hits. You couldn't substitute her here with Batman or even the Flash, because you want someone with a level of invulnerability and the ability to hit hard enough to show that Doomsday is a real powerhouse and nigh unstoppable.

As I mentioned on the other thread, this is not the first time Wonder Woman has been used by writers for this purpose. The Superman story The Man Who Has Everything did exactly the same thing - Wonder Woman fights a brave but futile battle with Mongul until Superman can get in the game.

The story is entirely based on the premise that anyone else fighting Doomsday is going to have their backside handed to them. This is even stated explicitly. We start with the fighter jets, work up to Steel, and then finish with Diana. At each stage the threat of Doomsday is affirmed and enhanced. She did not inflict any serious damage because her best hit with the sword slowed him for all of ten seconds and then she doenst even have that anymore. I suppose the writers might have done something completely insane and had her actually use the lasso but Doomsday in on her in heartbeat. She doesn't block the attack because the panel with him charging shows that the split second before he connects the heat vision sends him reeling back.

you got it right. Superman still is the stronger superhero on Earth, only him can stop doomsday. WW just a prop

[Superlad93]

But after that she was still ready to continue to fight, but Doomsday escaped after her battle cry xD. How can you know she wouldn't have been able to free herself? She wasn't defeated, Clark just happened to arrive.

Doomsday actually left because he wasn't ready to fight Superman yet. He was essentially scared by Superman. Lex confirms this with his calculations of Doomsday growth and objective. He said that Doomsday was going around killing lesser (than Superman) being in order to become strong enough to take on Superman.

As for the "battle cry" thing. It was Clark's pov. He was the one impressed by her battle cry but that doesn't mean Doomsday even noticed or cared about it. It was just scared to fight Superman.

[DochaDocha]

You know, if you scored this like a boxing matchup, WW beat Doomsday, because she landed one power blow, and Doomsday's one attack was blocked. Well, unless CJ Ross judged the fight...

[BlackFeath]

Doomsday actually left because he wasn't ready to fight Superman yet. He was essentially scared by Superman. Lex confirms this with his calculations of Doomsday growth and objective. He said that Doomsday was going around killing lesser (than Superman) being in order to become strong enough to take on Superman.

As for the "battle cry" thing. It was Clark's pov. He was the one impressed by her battle cry but that doesn't mean Doomsday even noticed or cared about it. It was just scared to fight Superman.

For me it was for both. It didn't escape as soon as it saw Superman, it escaped after he saw they were going to fight together. The one I mentioned was Clark's pov, the one you're talking about was Lex's, who wanted Superman to go away from Earth xD Just two different povs, both of them can and probably are truth.

About Doomsday...please, it is Superman's villain in a Superman's event, of course he was the one who defeated it. Also, if he wasn't the only one to fight against him in the final battle, then how could he possibly be the only one who was infected, as this was the point of the whole storyline: have Superman infected by this Doomsday virus?

If the point was making Wonder Woman look defeated, for me it lost its effect since I didn't see her defeated, I saw her ready to continue to battle in that panel, and in fact since what had happened, it made little sense to me that Superman fought Doomsday alone: they could have fought it together, Wonder Woman seemed to resist to the poison well enough. Of course, for the whole plot it was needed that Superman fought Doomsday alone, and with the dialogue, ecc..., they seemed to say that Superman was the most suitable adversary for this Doomsday because he could resist to the poison for a longer time (he was not invulnerable to it, though, and he got infected).

Anyway, if there was not this event, I would have liked both WW and SM to fight against Doomsday together in the SMWW title. It wasn't the case, but this doesn't bother me too much.

I kind of agree with what another poster said in another thread about this: in a mmorpg Superman would be a 'tanker', a pg who has many life points and so he is able to take much damage (in a team he would be the defender, which suits him xD). Very useful against a boss since he can resist longer.

Wonder Woman would be a warrior: a pg who is very effective thanks to agility (instead of being hit, she tends more to dodge the attacks) and can do high damage thanks to skills (combo attacks). Very useful in player vs player.

So...Diana was more effective against Zod and Faora since they were skilled warriors (like other players in a game) Superman instead was more effective against Doomsday.

[DochaDocha]

It's also fair to point out that in Mumbai, Doomsday didn't run away from Superman: he charged at Superman with an overhead double-fisted smash. Then when Superman left Doomsday to burn on Venus, Doomsday came back to attack Superman. So at some point, Doomsday felt confident (for lack of a better term) enough to attack Superman. I'm inclined to think he thought he couldn't beat both Wonder Woman and Superman together (and as it turns out, he probably would've lost, since he couldn't beat Superman solo). I don't know why anyone would conclude, with a high degree of certainty, that WW would've lost to Doomsday. Sure seems to me that it's purposefully inconclusive.

And ditto BlackFeath's thoughts. Of course it's left for Superman to fight Doomsday mano-a-mano. That's Doomsday's legacy: Superman takes him down in a double KO.

[Blacksun]

It's also fair to point out that in Mumbai, Doomsday didn't run away from Superman: he charged at Superman with an overhead double-fisted smash. Then when Superman left Doomsday to burn on Venus, Doomsday came back to attack Superman. So at some point, Doomsday felt confident (for lack of a better term) enough to attack Superman. I'm inclined to think he thought he couldn't beat both Wonder Woman and Superman together (and as it turns out, he probably would've lost, since he couldn't beat Superman solo). I don't know why anyone would conclude, with a high degree of certainty, that WW would've lost to Doomsday. Sure seems to me that it's purposefully inconclusive.

And ditto BlackFeath's thoughts. Of course it's left for Superman to fight Doomsday mano-a-mano. That's Doomsday's legacy: Superman takes him down in a double KO.

it's obvious that WW would lost to doomsday.

Doomsday actually left because he wasn't ready to fight Superman yet. He was essentially scared by Superman. Lex confirms this with his calculations of Doomsday growth and objective. He said that Doomsday was going around killing lesser (than Superman) being in order to become strong enough to take on Superman.

As for the "battle cry" thing. It was Clark's pov. He was the one impressed by her battle cry but that doesn't mean Doomsday even noticed or cared about it. It was just scared to fight Superman.

the battle cry is comedy gold ahaha
wish male writers could stop writing WW as brute warrior and get away with it easily because of shippers

[Vanguard-01]

For me it was for both. It didn't escape as soon as it saw Superman, it escaped after he saw they were going to fight together. The one I mentioned was Clark's pov, the one you're talking about was Lex's, who wanted Superman to go away from Earth xD Just two different povs, both of them can and probably are truth.

About Doomsday...please, it is Superman's villain in a Superman's event, of course he was the one who defeated it. Also, if he wasn't the only one to fight against him in the final battle, then how could he possibly be the only one who was infected, as this was the point of the whole storyline: have Superman infected by this Doomsday virus?

If the point was making Wonder Woman look defeated, for me it lost its effect since I didn't see her defeated, I saw her ready to continue to battle in that panel, and in fact since what had happened, it made little sense to me that Superman fought Doomsday alone: they could have fought it together, Wonder Woman seemed to resist to the poison well enough. Of course, for the whole plot it was needed that Superman fought Doomsday alone, and with the dialogue, ecc..., they seemed to say that Superman was the most suitable adversary for this Doomsday because he could resist to the poison for a longer time (he was not invulnerable to it, though, and he got infected).

Anyway, if there was not this event, I would have liked both WW and SM to fight against Doomsday together in the SMWW title. It wasn't the case, but this doesn't bother me too much.

I kind of agree with what another poster said in another thread about this: in a mmorpg Superman would be a 'tanker', a pg who has many life points and so he is able to take much damage (in a team he would be the defender, which suits him xD). Very useful against a boss since he can resist longer.

Wonder Woman would be a warrior: a pg who is very effective thanks to agility (instead of being hit, she tends more to dodge the attacks) and can do high damage thanks to skills (combo attacks). Very useful in player vs player.

So...Diana was more effective against Zod and Faora since they were skilled warriors (like other players in a game) Superman instead was more effective against Doomsday.

I agree with every word you said here.

As for the bolded part? That only makes sense, when you think about it. Zod has an advantage over Superman because he's so well-trained and skilled. Superman has NEVER been a particularly skilled, strategic fighter. Thus? Zod is the PERFECT opponent to thwart Superman: a fighter who relies on brains to counter Superman's brawn.

Because of this, Wonder Woman is a better matchup against Zod. She, too, fights strategically. She can match Zod at his own game. Likewise, Doomsday is just like Superman: a character who relies more on brawn and raw power over brains. Superman does well against Doomsday because he and Doomsday fight the same kind of fight. Wonder Woman does well against Zod because they also fight the same kind of fight.

[DochaDocha]

it's obvious that WW would lost to doomsday.

You and I don't agree on what "obvious" means.

[Superlad93]

For me it was for both. It didn't escape as soon as it saw Superman, it escaped after he saw they were going to fight together. The one I mentioned was Clark's pov, the one you're talking about was Lex's, who wanted Superman to go away from Earth xD Just two different povs, both of them can and probably are truth.

But then Batman say's he ran from SUPERMAN TWICE after this instance. That means Batman and others (as they recognizes the instance with Wonder Woman as DD running from SUPERMAN) as the second instance of Doomsday running from Superman. The first time when Superman was going to confront DD on the island it decided to run then as confirmed by Batman's observation and no one's protest. Lex also had more than just his POV. He has actual calculations on this. Then it's implied that the only reason anyone is bringing up the idea of him being wrong is because they don't want Superman to do it alone. In the end they all know he's the one it's after and the one it's build itself up to fight. If it were Wonder Woman's input they DD would have gone after she showed up, and if it was the idea of fighting them both then he wouldn't have ran from Superman the first time and it would have been mentioned verbally by say Batman. Everything else was pretty spelled out so I fail to see why this be any different.

Lastly Superman had to orbit the earth at super speed because Doomsday was ducking him till he could get stronger. It was only after Superman ambushed him that Doomsday fought him.

About Doomsday...please, it is Superman's villain in a Superman's event, of course he was the one who defeated it. Also, if he wasn't the only one to fight against him in the final battle, then how could he possibly be the only one who was infected, as this was the point of the whole storyline: have Superman infected by this Doomsday virus?

We are speaking on in story events.

If the point was making Wonder Woman look defeated, for me it lost its effect since I didn't see her defeated, I saw her ready to continue to battle in that panel, and in fact since what had happened, it made little sense to me that Superman fought Doomsday alone: they could have fought it together, Wonder Woman seemed to resist to the poison well enough. Of course, for the whole plot it was needed that Superman fought Doomsday alone, and with the dialogue, ecc..., they seemed to say that Superman was the most suitable adversary for this Doomsday because he could resist to the poison for a longer time (he was not invulnerable to it, though, and he got infected)

.

I think the point was actually to show Wonder Woman as a badass (same with Steel). She did much better than she did last time and I'm sure she would have liked to fight more with it.....but that man not have been the smartest effort. We already see that even Wonder Woman's atom splitting blade got destroyed just from long contact with Doomsday. Then she comes out with infected burns from contact with the thing. Superman had little to no problem with the aura. I imagine if Wonder Woman would have stayed in contact with Doomsday long enough she would have died unfortunately. As it was stated Superman was the only one on earth capable of standing the aura for a long time.

A good showing of courage, resistance, and battle skill for her though.

So...Diana was more effective against Zod and Faora since they were skilled warriors (like other players in a game) Superman instead was more effective against Doomsday.

Yup because skill doesn't always beat out unleashed and unhinged power. Superman followed her lead when it was need and she followed his when it was needed even if that means just hanging back and keeping the world safe.

[Vanguard-01]

it's obvious that WW would lost to doomsday.

The sucking chest wound in Doomsday's chest, plus the fact that Diana didn't have a scratch on her says differently.

the battle cry is comedy gold ahaha
wish male writers could stop writing WW as brute warrior and get away with it easily because of shippers

As a "brute warrior?" She used a battle cry to unnerve an opponent before she engaged him. That's called "strategy." Not brute force. Batman uses intimidation tactics to unnerve his opponents all the time.

[Blacksun]

You and I don't agree on what "obvious" means.

well it was stated that only Superman could beat, and WW was starting to lose to doomsday. If it's not obvious, you definition of obvious is different from mine

The sucking chest wound in Doomsday's chest, plus the fact that Diana didn't have a scratch on her says differently.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good SM/WW-hate.



As a "brute warrior?" She used a battle cry to unnerve an opponent before she engaged him. That's called "strategy." Not brute force. Batman uses intimidation tactics to unnerve his opponents all the time.

facts that only superman had the power to stop doomsday and did that easily, and WW was starting to lose for doomsday again.

never saw Azzarello WW using battling cry, because it's ridiculous. strategy? lol and the part about bring the head of doomsday. Soule/pak clearly think WW is some kind of savage warrior that only knows screams and blood

[DochaDocha]

WW was starting to lose to doomsday.

It's called "trading blows." It's like the biggest fiction fight trope of all time. Character A gets the first hit, character B then gets the next hit, and that's exactly what happened, and that's also what happened when Superman fought Doomsday.

Not to get all geeky, but fiction likes their fight outcomes to look like sine curves, when in reality, contested fights probably look more like two-directional Brownian motions.

EDIT: Luthor says, "No one here [referring to every JL member, including Superman] would survive a fight with Doomsday." Clearly he was wrong, or at least it wasn't correct to say Doomsday would win a fist fight with any of them.

[Superlad93]

Because of this, Wonder Woman is a better matchup against Zod. She, too, fights strategically. She can match Zod at his own game. Likewise, Doomsday is just like Superman: a character who relies more on brawn and raw power over brains. Superman does well against Doomsday because he and Doomsday fight the same kind of fight. Wonder Woman does well against Zod because they also fight the same kind of fight.

I just wanna say that this is an inaccurate assessment of the new 52 Superman. He does NOT simply rely on brawn to win a conflict. Grant Morrison, Greg Pak, and even Scott Lobdell (who's shown some of the smartest and most controlled uses of Superman's power) have shown this OVER and OVER again. Superman is a master of his powers and adjusting to fight his foe. Turing off his brain to fight a telepath, using a miniaturized rocket to reprogram Brainiac, coming up with a 5 year plan to beat back a 5th dimensional god, scanning his foes bone density to understand how hard he can hit them, while fighting he figured out how his foe's intangibility worked and then came up with a way to stop it on the spot, and lastly he made his opponent think he'd gone mad with rage only to turn the tide in a finishing move that he pulled off effortlessly.

The man shown in the new 52 is an amazing combatant and just like he said in issue 8 of SM/WW "I don't show it off, like some people. But I'm a clever clever boy, Diana". The very idea that brawn is all he is makes little sense outside of the one issue of SM/WW.