Bruce Banner: The Hulk Appreciation 2018

[Gamma Burst]

Hulk is like a monster, evidently in more ways than one and like any good monster, Vampires, Wolfmen, Zombies, you name it they are for the most part Immortal.

Hulk is not "your" typical comic book character.

We got a lower powered Hulk post-Pak to this run.

(Well when he wasn't dead at any rate.)

Those runs weren't all that great and the sales kept petering out.

While Immortal Hulk dropped off a bit after #1 it's actually been gaining readers the last few issues. Fans are coming back.

And yeah being the toughest guy in town is a big part of who the Hulk is. While I certainly don't think he needs the Power Gamma or the Rageforce or something like that, he is the guy who challenges things beyond mortal ken with nothing more than his two fists and an endless well of rage.

It's a bummer that we don't get Hulk Thing fights anymore. But to be honest, Been has been left behind by the rest of the Marvel Universe, not just Hulk. Dude is the least powerful person on Fantastic Four, and not by just a bit either. Pretty sure Sue could kill Been in about a second at this point.

She-Hulk has never been considered a peer in power to her cousin until, what last issue of the Avengers? And she has had a series of power ups since she was first introduced.

Thor has lost Mjolnir which does weaken him a lot. But Thor without Mjolnir has never been a match for Hulk.

And even with all that, ultimately, Hulk shouldn't be kept weaker in his own book and his own stories for the benefit of crossover fights. Fun as they may be I'd rather forgo those for good Hulk stories than the reverse.

Long story short, I think Hulk is at his best when he is a powerhouse.

You guys nailed it

[GreenScar1990]

The fact he's too powerful and immortal ( a simple aspect in Hulk's history) means nothing. In the hands of great writers like PAD and Ewing, you can write a Hulk with any power level you want, and still tell a compelling story with depth. And that's what Ewing is doing; exploring the depth the of Hulk the and playing aspects that were already with the character, adding new things to the myth. The immortality was already there; Ewing just gave an explanation with the mysterious Green Door. This is a brilliant concept, which is the base for the horror aspect of the comic and it's unique tone. it's a fascinating comic that deserves all the praise and success it's having.

I agree 100% and beyond with this! Glad all of you guys actually get it! Only someone who truly understands the Hulk gets it. And those who hate it or dislike it, are sometimes those who hate the character or simply do not get Hulk/Banner as a character.

Really? Showing a character that has been said to have a potential for unlimited strength as having a potential for unlimited strength for 98% of his existence, getting stronger is ridiculous? Nothing about it is outside his character's norm. Marvel still has more than a few in their stable to contest that and comic fans that will argue the point. I bet you could name a few?

World Breaker is a level an enraged Hulk reached. Probably more to come.

Which issue did Hulk grow gills to breathe underwater?

In a few early 60's and 70's, Stan Lee, Marie Severin and Roy Thomas comics, Hulk can be seen either talking (yup) underwater and living in space for weeks. At times it has been said he couldn't, so to explain the inconsistency, his ability to adapt became cannon. What's the real problem?

Again, in the 60's and 70's Banner and Hulk have died in story only to be bought back to life by gamma energy in some way. Nothing new here. In Peter David's Hulk run Maestro returned from death and even mentioned that the never stay dead. Again...nothing New...Here.

Immortality as a power... well yeah. Do normal human characters have it..(your answer here)...well then it's a power.

Stan Lee, the co-creater of Hulk wrote that short of Galactus, Eternity, Odin and the like Hulk is the Strongest One there is...and that was a weaker Hulk. What's the real issue here?

Damn right!

About the Hulk being too powerful... he as been described as a force of nature for most of his existence. Trying to stop him is akin to trying to diffuse a nuclear bomb before it goes off and the clock is hovering around the one second mark. One it goes off there is no containing it. At that point it does what it does.

Exactly!

We got a lower powered Hulk post-Pak to this run.

(Well when he wasn't dead at any rate.)

Those runs weren't all that great and the sales kept petering out.

While Immortal Hulk dropped off a bit after #1 it's actually been gaining readers the last few issues. Fans are coming back.

And yeah being the toughest guy in town is a big part of who the Hulk is. While I certainly don't think he needs the Power Gamma or the Rageforce or something like that, he is the guy who challenges things beyond mortal ken with nothing more than his two fists and an endless well of rage.

It's a bummer that we don't get Hulk Thing fights anymore. But to be honest, Been has been left behind by the rest of the Marvel Universe, not just Hulk. Dude is the least powerful person on Fantastic Four, and not by just a bit either. Pretty sure Sue could kill Been in about a second at this point.

She-Hulk has never been considered a peer in power to her cousin until, what last issue of the Avengers? And she has had a series of power ups since she was first introduced.

Thor has lost Mjolnir which does weaken him a lot. But Thor without Mjolnir has never been a match for Hulk.

And even with all that, ultimately, Hulk shouldn't be kept weaker in his own book and his own stories for the benefit of crossover fights. Fun as they may be I'd rather forgo those for good Hulk stories than the reverse.

Long story short, I think Hulk is at his best when he is a powerhouse.

Bingo!

I've seen this before...it's called fear of the proper characterization of the Hulk. Hulk needs Foes that other superheroes can't deal with. After all, he is a man-like monster.

Sounds like it.

[Gamma Irradiated Being]

We got a lower powered Hulk post-Pak to this run.

(Well when he wasn't dead at any rate.)

Those runs weren't all that great and the sales kept petering out.

While Immortal Hulk dropped off a bit after #1 it's actually been gaining readers the last few issues. Fans are coming back.

And yeah being the toughest guy in town is a big part of who the Hulk is. While I certainly don't think he needs the Power Gamma or the Rageforce or something like that, he is the guy who challenges things beyond mortal ken with nothing more than his two fists and an endless well of rage.

It's a bummer that we don't get Hulk Thing fights anymore. But to be honest, Been has been left behind by the rest of the Marvel Universe, not just Hulk. Dude is the least powerful person on Fantastic Four, and not by just a bit either. Pretty sure Sue could kill Been in about a second at this point.

She-Hulk has never been considered a peer in power to her cousin until, what last issue of the Avengers? And she has had a series of power ups since she was first introduced.

Thor has lost Mjolnir which does weaken him a lot. But Thor without Mjolnir has never been a match for Hulk.

And even with all that, ultimately, Hulk shouldn't be kept weaker in his own book and his own stories for the benefit of crossover fights. Fun as they may be I'd rather forgo those for good Hulk stories than the reverse.

Long story short, I think Hulk is at his best when he is a powerhouse.

I hope no one ever comes up with any DC concepts like the Power Gamma or the Rageforce. I'm not sure where Al Ewing is going with the whole green door story, but evidently it's an extra-dimensional space where gamma-affected beings may draw their power. It fits right in with the Official Marvel Handbooks theory and not some DC comics ripped-off concept.

[GreenScar1990]

The fact he's too powerful and immortal ( a simple aspect in Hulk's history) means nothing. In the hands of great writers like PAD and Ewing, you can write a Hulk with any power level you want, and still tell a compelling story with depth. And that's what Ewing is doing; exploring the depth the of Hulk the and playing aspects that were already with the character, adding new things to the myth. The immortality was already there; Ewing just gave an explanation with the mysterious Green Door. This is a brilliant concept, which is the base for the horror aspect of the comic and it's unique tone. it's a fascinating comic that deserves all the praise and success it's having.

Really? Showing a character that has been said to have a potential for unlimited strength as having a potential for unlimited strength for 98% of his existence, getting stronger is ridiculous? Nothing about it is outside his character's norm. Marvel still has more than a few in their stable to contest that and comic fans that will argue the point. I bet you could name a few?

World Breaker is a level an enraged Hulk reached. Probably more to come.

Which issue did Hulk grow gills to breathe underwater?

In a few early 60's and 70's, Stan Lee, Marie Severin and Roy Thomas comics, Hulk can be seen either talking (yup) underwater and living in space for weeks. At times it has been said he couldn't, so to explain the inconsistency, his ability to adapt became cannon. What's the real problem?

Again, in the 60's and 70's Banner and Hulk have died in story only to be bought back to life by gamma energy in some way. Nothing new here. In Peter David's Hulk run Maestro returned from death and even mentioned that the never stay dead. Again...nothing New...Here.

Immortality as a power... well yeah. Do normal human characters have it..(your answer here)...well then it's a power.

Stan Lee, the co-creater of Hulk wrote that short of Galactus, Eternity, Odin and the like Hulk is the Strongest One there is...and that was a weaker Hulk. What's the real issue here?

About the Hulk being too powerful... he as been described as a force of nature for most of his existence. Trying to stop him is akin to trying to diffuse a nuclear bomb before it goes off and the clock is hovering around the one second mark. One it goes off there is no containing it. At that point it does what it does.

We got a lower powered Hulk post-Pak to this run.

(Well when he wasn't dead at any rate.)

Those runs weren't all that great and the sales kept petering out.

While Immortal Hulk dropped off a bit after #1 it's actually been gaining readers the last few issues. Fans are coming back.

And yeah being the toughest guy in town is a big part of who the Hulk is. While I certainly don't think he needs the Power Gamma or the Rageforce or something like that, he is the guy who challenges things beyond mortal ken with nothing more than his two fists and an endless well of rage.

It's a bummer that we don't get Hulk Thing fights anymore. But to be honest, Been has been left behind by the rest of the Marvel Universe, not just Hulk. Dude is the least powerful person on Fantastic Four, and not by just a bit either. Pretty sure Sue could kill Been in about a second at this point.

She-Hulk has never been considered a peer in power to her cousin until, what last issue of the Avengers? And she has had a series of power ups since she was first introduced.

Thor has lost Mjolnir which does weaken him a lot. But Thor without Mjolnir has never been a match for Hulk.

And even with all that, ultimately, Hulk shouldn't be kept weaker in his own book and his own stories for the benefit of crossover fights. Fun as they may be I'd rather forgo those for good Hulk stories than the reverse.

Long story short, I think Hulk is at his best when he is a powerhouse.

I've seen this before...it's called fear of the proper characterization of the Hulk. Hulk needs Foes that other superheroes can't deal with. After all, he is a man-like monster.

I hope no one ever comes up with any DC concepts like the Power Gamma or the Rageforce. I'm not sure where Al Ewing is going with the whole green door story, but evidently it's an extra-dimensional space where gamma-affected beings may draw their power. It fits right in with the Official Marvel Handbooks theory and not some DC comics ripped-off concept.

Yeah, it is unique. It could be connected to all Gamma Power in all existence. Not just one universe. Power from all universes, dimensions, realities, multiverses, and omniverses! A truly infinite source of energy and raw power.

[Gamma Irradiated Being]

Hulk fans are the coolest!

[Gamma Irradiated Being]

Yeah, it is unique. It could be connected to all Gamma Power in all existence. Not just one universe. Power from all universes, dimensions, realities, multiverses, and omniverses! A truly infinite source of energy and raw power.

That would be interesting. Being that Ewing already hinted that there is definitely something supernatural going on with gamma affected beings. It would give credence to all the limitless potential.

[Ptrvc]

How did She-Hulk compare with Joe Fixit? Did they ever address that? I feel like Green She-hulk vs. Grey Hulk would have been pretty comparable... but I'm not sure.


I also think the conversation is being taken really personal. This was not a question about smashing down Ewing or the current book. It's not about dropping him down to weak stages (although I TOO want to see Ben become a challenge again.)

It was simply a question about powering him up even MOOOORE... All the comments about not reaching his potential and barely scratching the surface of what he can do... when he's Already the most powerful guy around.

Why do people want something like Maestro and Worldbreaker to be the 'early' stages of Hulkness? In my opinion those two stages should BE The endpoint. Worldbreaker can destroy the planet... Maestro has a trophy room of all the invicible heroes he's killed off.... THAT's the glimpse in the future of what Hulk can reach... I really wouldn't WANT him to be more powerful than THAT.

Whether or not Jen and Joe Fixit could have had a good fight or not, it was never presented as some big match up within the Marvel Universe. Even if it would make for a good fight powerwise at some point, Bruce and Jen fighting each other has always been a rare thing, and more a matter or circumstance rather than some sort of character driven rivalry like with Thing, Thor, Wolverine, etc.

Hulk vs. She-Hulk just isn't a thing.

This isn't meant personally. I don't thing Hulk should be constantly walking around shaking continents or anything, but I would say that he can still go beyond what we've saw even in Pak's run. The Hulk/Banner isn't a normal human with normal human emotions. He's a weird, weird dude and always has been, even before Gamma Bomb. It's been repeatedly stated, by everyone from the Watcher to Stan Lee himself that Hulk's capacity for strength and rage is infinite.

Overall from what Ewing has said, I don't expect to see Worldbreaker type stuff anywhere in his run. He's even said somewhere (can't remember where) that while he expects his Hulk to be one of the most powerful, it probably wouldn't be the most powerful interpretation of the character.

What I do get annoyed at (And this isn't meant to be directed at you phantom1592,) is the constant remarks from people who aren't fans of the character, and who don't read his books that the Hulk is 'too powerful' (while simultaneously supposedly he should be easily beaten by an evergrowing list of characters.) Note: that when Hulk was written as less powerful by Waid, Duggan and others, these guys didn't come out of the woodwork to buy Hulk's book.

A lot of these guys are probably upset that Hulk is portrayed as more powerful than their favorites, which I do understand. But that's kind of a consequence of showing up monthly in an Avengers or an X-Men book isn't it? Maybe if Ben Grimm and Piotr Rasputin didn't have to share so many of their battles with their teams, they'd be matching the other powerhouse characters by now.

As for the Maestro...eh...I've always kind of found him more than a little overrated. The dudes a stronger Merged Hulk, who actually uses his intelligence in viscous ways, but he's still just a merged Hulk. How many of those trophies were really gained in a direct confrontation I wonder? The two times he's fought a more traditionally powerful Hulk he has not fared so well. (Part of that is that Hulk despises him, I'll grant you, so he immediately get's pissed off and beats him down.)

I'm rambling now. I will reiterate that while a do expect a relatively strong Hulk in Ewing's run, I'll be a bit surprised if he reaches, much less eclipses, the power we saw in Pak's.

[phantom1592]

This isn't meant personally. I don't thing Hulk should be constantly walking around shaking continents or anything, but I would say that he can still go beyond what we've saw even in Pak's run. The Hulk/Banner isn't a normal human with normal human emotions. He's a weird, weird dude and always has been, even before Gamma Bomb. It's been repeatedly stated, by everyone from the Watcher to Stan Lee himself that Hulk's capacity for strength and rage is infinite.

In my mind 'Infinite' has always meant 'We haven't found a cap yet'. I just can't imagine Hulk punching out the Beyonder or Eternity... Maybe Galactus when he's hungry or Hulk's furious...

Overall from what Ewing has said, I don't expect to see Worldbreaker type stuff anywhere in his run. He's even said somewhere (can't remember where) that while he expects his Hulk to be one of the most powerful, it probably wouldn't be the most powerful interpretation of the character.

Which is perfectly fine with me. Hulk has had SOOOO Many spectrums that there is plenty of room to play around with. I just hate when each writer needs to one up the one before... and it's not just directed about Hulk, but all superheroes in general. Suddenly that super insane wild unheard of power we saw before... is mundane now compared to the REALLLY REAL powerup!

What I do get annoyed at (And this isn't meant to be directed at you phantom1592,) is the constant remarks from people who aren't fans of the character, and who don't read his books that the Hulk is 'too powerful' (while simultaneously supposedly he should be easily beaten by an evergrowing list of characters.) Note: that when Hulk was written as less powerful by Waid, Duggan and others, these guys didn't come out of the woodwork to buy Hulk's book.

A lot of these guys are probably upset that Hulk is portrayed as more powerful than their favorites, which I do understand. But that's kind of a consequence of showing up monthly in an Avengers or an X-Men book isn't it? Maybe if Ben Grimm and Piotr Rasputin didn't have to share so many of their battles with their teams, they'd be matching the other powerhouse characters by now.

I like a Hulk who is the strongest one there is... but I also like when there are challenges. He's always been stronger than Ben or Piotr... but with the right leverage or wrestling moves they could hold their own for a little while.

My point of reference has always been seeing both sides of the coin. I see people blasting Superman all the day because THIS...

Superman_moving_planets.jpg
Is just way too powerful and unrealistic and impossible to write a challenge for.... but then I come here and This....




This is just a stepping stone to his evolution and he'll totally get more powerful.

As for the Maestro...eh...I've always kind of found him more than a little overrated. The dudes a stronger Merged Hulk, who actually uses his intelligence in viscous ways, but he's still just a merged Hulk. How many of those trophies were really gained in a direct confrontation I wonder? The two times he's fought a more traditionally powerful Hulk he has not fared so well. (Part of that is that Hulk despises him, I'll grant you, so he immediately get's pissed off and beats him down.)

I'm rambling now. I will reiterate that while a do expect a relatively strong Hulk in Ewing's run, I'll be a bit surprised if he reaches, much less eclipses, the power we saw in Pak's.

I loved Maestro in his first appearance. Anything after that I thought had seriously diminished returns. Much like Bane and Doomsday... the unstoppable awesomeness that this villain had... couldn't really capture the magic after that.

And again, that's cool. This conversation wasn't really about Ewing's run in particular. I was just bringing up power levels vs. lasting stories. He's been bumped and lowered so many times over the years... I'm glad that Ewing will keep him a bit more grounded.

[Gamma Irradiated Being]

I've seen the show on repeat too much over the years with silly fans trying to downplay Hulk's abilities. Guys it's comics. Let Hulk do what he does best...Incredible things. By the way Hulk is the Strongest One there is!

As far as Maestro. He's the future Hulk from a different timeline that basically felt no threat from the Merged or Gravage/Green Scar incarnation from the present time. In order to get Maestro correct when writing him today, you have to factor in his World Breaker level, the fact that he knows his true potential and the fact that he told Hulk from the present timeline that he had abilities that he knew nothing about. So, when writing Maestro, he needs to be shown with said more potential and abilities than Hulk has been known to have.

Also, it was never said that Maestro killed the superheroes. Most died because of a nuclear war.

[Ptrvc]

In my mind 'Infinite' has always meant 'We haven't found a cap yet'. I just can't imagine Hulk punching out the Beyonder or Eternity... Maybe Galactus when he's hungry or Hulk's furious...




Which is perfectly fine with me. Hulk has had SOOOO Many spectrums that there is plenty of room to play around with. I just hate when each writer needs to one up the one before... and it's not just directed about Hulk, but all superheroes in general. Suddenly that super insane wild unheard of power we saw before... is mundane now compared to the REALLLY REAL powerup!





I like a Hulk who is the strongest one there is... but I also like when there are challenges. He's always been stronger than Ben or Piotr... but with the right leverage or wrestling moves they could hold their own for a little while.

My point of reference has always been seeing both sides of the coin. I see people blasting Superman all the day because THIS...

Superman_moving_planets.jpg
Is just way too powerful and unrealistic and impossible to write a challenge for.... but then I come here and This....




This is just a stepping stone to his evolution and he'll totally get more powerful.





I loved Maestro in his first appearance. Anything after that I thought had seriously diminished returns. Much like Bane and Doomsday... the unstoppable awesomeness that this villain had... couldn't really capture the magic after that.

And again, that's cool. This conversation wasn't really about Ewing's run in particular. I was just bringing up power levels vs. lasting stories. He's been bumped and lowered so many times over the years... I'm glad that Ewing will keep him a bit more grounded.

While I don't believe that the Worldbreaker should be a limit, I do agree that those kind of moments for the Hulk should be used sparingly, maybe only a few times a decade. While I do agree Hulk shouldn't be knocking out guys like a fully Galactus left and right, the fact that with the proper motivation Hulk could do this, is part of what makes him unique and exciting, even amongst the many vibrant characters in the Marvel roster.

[Gamma Irradiated Being]

In my mind 'Infinite' has always meant 'We haven't found a cap yet'. I just can't imagine Hulk punching out the Beyonder or Eternity... Maybe Galactus when he's hungry or Hulk's furious...

Your mind is wrong then. You can't make up meanings of words. Infinite means having no limit as in Hulk has no limit to his power. Speaking of the Beyonder he's the one that said Hulk's power was infinite. You've also found someone you think is stronger at the same time. Go figure.

And Pre-Crisis Superman hasn't exited in 33 years.

[Gamma Irradiated Being]

GreenScar1990 my buddy where is this from?

[Gamma Burst]

As Gamma Irradiated Being, Green Scar, Ptrvc and myself have been saying, Hulk is incredibly powerful, that's not a problem; it's part of the nature of the character. The other unique characteristics he has are not exactly anything new; they are only being explored in depth; his ability to see ghosts, his unnatural sense of direction, his transformation, the potential for unlimited strength have always been there.

You could see not only at the comics, but even in the handbooks, theories about his nature: where does the extra mass and dynamic energy comes from? Physically this shouldn't be possible, so it was theorized, more than once that it could come from extra-dimensional sources. Even theories about his strange metamorphosis and shapeshifting were elaborated. In the old marvel.com site, during the 90s, there was a section where the Beast (McCoy) talked about the characters and he says similar stuff we've been saying; he even theorizes that, in his view, Banner is in fact a metamorph of the highest order.

There are many other elements that can be played by the hands of capable writers, like PAD, Ewing and Pak. They only add to them and offer their unique take about them.

[Gamma Irradiated Being]

As Gamma Irradiated Being, Green Scar, Ptrvc and myself have been saying, Hulk is incredibly powerful, that's not a problem; it's part of the nature of the character. The other unique characteristics he has are not exactly anything new; they are only being explored in depth; his ability to see ghosts, his unnatural sense of direction, his transformation, the potential for unlimited strength have always been there.

You could see not only at the comics, but even in the handbooks, theories about his nature: where does the extra mass and dynamic energy comes from? Physically this shouldn't be possible, so it was theorized, more than once that it could come from extra-dimensional sources. Even theories about his strange metamorphosis and shapeshifting were elaborated. In the old marvel.com site, during the 90s, there was a section where the Beast (McCoy) talked about the characters and he says similar stuff we've been saying; he even theorizes that, in his view, Banner is in fact a metamorph of the highest order.

There are many other elements that can be played by the hands of capable writers, like PAD, Ewing and Pak. They only add to them and offer their unique take about them.

Well said!

[Mantis Dad]

I have kept silent during this discussion because all of you are totally spot on. Thank you all for representing the Hulk so well.
Squatch, is your avatar the last page of the current issue? I admit, I loved that drawing of Hulk more than any I have seen for a long time.