Magneto Finally Fesses Up to Being Xorn

[grinningdemon]

The Avengers were not there to kill Scott. I'm sure Storm and the other X-Men wanted to (as they always want to do), but Charles knew that they would have stopped themselves.

They were willing to kill him...you can argue whether or not that was in character but that is how it was written...if Scott is responsible for his actions in that scene then so is everyone else...you can't have it both ways.

[Habis]

The X-Men had to become pragmatists. That's what the ten years between M-Day and AvX were about. But now that the crisis is over, it's time to get to brass tacks.

That's the opposite of pragmatism. That was suicidal. They were accepting the guy who had already betrayed them and turned against them from the inside several times.

And anyways, as I said, they would have to be emotionless robots to be able to coexist with Magneto, if they believed that he was Xorn. Do the writers even try to pretend that their characters resemble human beings in any way, anymore?

And Bolibar Trask, Willian Stryker, Ahab, they are all pragmatists too. By killing or sterilizing mutants they are protecting Humanity against extinction. Very pragmatic. Does that justify their actions?

[IdaqiBeauty]

They were willing to kill him...you can argue whether or not that was in character but that is how it was written...if Scott is responsible for his actions in that scene then so is everyone else...you can't have it both ways.

Oh so it was written that they were willing to kill him? Where?

[grinningdemon]

Bendis already had Dr. Strange imply during House of M that Wanda brought him back. Anyway, I think Bendis is trying to make this new reader friendly, so he's gesturing at the continuity without having too much exposition.

Without that exposition, there is no impact to the confrontation...and crippling Xavier is far from the worst thing Xorneto did...I think Bendis wrote it the way he did to leave it open to interpretation...not to really resolve anything...his comments after the fact are just trolling his readers (something he loves to do).

[IdaqiBeauty]

That's the opposite of pragmatism. That was suicidal. They were accepting the guy who had already betrayed them and turned against them from the inside several times.

And anyways, as I said, they would have to be emotionless robots to be able to coexist with Magneto, if they believed that he was Xorn. Do the writers even try to pretend that their characters resemble human beings in any way, anymore?

And Bolibar Trask, Willian Stryker, Ahab, they are all pragmatists too. By killing or sterilizing mutants they are protecting Humanity against extinction. Very pragmatic. Does that justify their actions?

It was pragmatism. They needed him. He proved his loyalty by nearly killing himself to save Kitty, and again to save the Cuckoos and everyone else on Utopia during Second Coming.

They also accepted Toad, Scalphunter, Nekra, Frenzy and Emma on Utopia.

[IdaqiBeauty]

I'm baffled that people have a hard time accepting that Scott would allow the man to kill his ressurected wife on the X-Men AFTER he started dating the woman who drove Jean crazy and contributed to her first death.

[grinningdemon]

Oh so it was written that they were willing to kill him? Where?

An arrow through the throat is lethal action by any standard...you don't do that if you aren't willing to kill...plus, Bendis had written most of the Avengers as killers already at that point so why would they suddenly draw the line of morality with a potentially out of control, cosmic being?

[Habis]

Without that exposition, there is no impact to the confrontation...and crippling Xavier is far from the worst thing Xorneto did...I think Bendis wrote it the way he did to leave it open to interpretation...not to really resolve anything...his comments after the fact are just trolling his readers (something he loves to do).

I think he forgot who crippled Xavier, and that's the reason he wrote that in the book by mistake. The tumblr post probably is just trolling. There is no way they can acknowledge Magneto being Xorn without making the X-Men a bunch of sociopaths.

It was pragmatism. They needed him. He proved his loyalty by nearly killing himself to save Kitty, and again to save the Cuckoos and everyone else on Utopia during Second Coming.

They also accepted Toad, Scalphunter, Nekra, Frenzy and Emma on Utopia.

I'm baffled that people have a hard time accepting that Scott would allow the man to kill his ressurected wife on the X-Men AFTER he started dating the woman who drove Jean crazy and contributed to her first death.

Toad's and Frenzy's crimes are in a very lower scale, and are less personal. Scalphunter was a clone, so we don't know how many bad things he did since birth.

I have always said that the X-Men accepted Emma too easily. They should despise her way more than they do. But Xorneto's crimes were fresher and greater.

[grinningdemon]

I'm baffled that people have a hard time accepting that Scott would allow the man to kill his ressurected wife on the X-Men AFTER he started dating the woman who drove Jean crazy and contributed to her first death.

And I'm baffled that people have a hard time seeing any of that as out of character.

[IdaqiBeauty]

An arrow through the throat is lethal action by any standard...you don't do that if you aren't willing to kill...plus, Bendis had written most of the Avengers as killers already at that point so why would they suddenly draw the line of morality with a potentially out of control, cosmic being?

They weren't going to kill him. They were trying to get him to give up the Phoenix to Hope. Xavier knew that. And if Scott refused to cooperate, they had Wanda and Hope there to rip the Phoenix from him. They knew they couldn't kill him until the Phoenix was out of them. They could, however, hurt him, and disrupt his concentration so that he'd stop burning down cities on the other side of the planet. Anyway, this is a derailment of the thread. You should argue about it elsewhere.

[IdaqiBeauty]

And I'm baffled that people have a hard time seeing any of that as out of character.

Cyclops formed a death squad and ordered them to kill his son. Sleeping with Emma and allying himself with Magneto are minor compared to that.

[IdaqiBeauty]

I think he forgot who crippled Xavier, and that's the reason he wrote that in the book by mistake. The tumblr post probably is just trolling. There is no way they can acknowledge Magneto being Xorn without making the X-Men a bunch of sociopaths.





Toad's and Frenzy's crimes are in a very lower scale, and are less personal. Scalphunter was a clone, so we don't know how many bad things he did since birth.

I have always said that the X-Men accepted Emma too easily. They should despise her way more than they do. But Xorneto's crimes were fresher and greater.

Frenzy killed Sharon and a busload of children with Down's Syndrome, and Cyclops married her. Masque mutilated a subway car of innocents during the Extremists arc. Cyclops didn't care.

[Spasticat]

Personally, I'd like to see him fess up to his stint as Erik the Red, as well as WHY he did it.

Is Magneto bipolar or schizophrenic...? Or is he just that much of a psychopath?

[grinningdemon]

They weren't going to kill him. They were trying to get him to give up the Phoenix to Hope. Xavier knew that. And if Scott refused to cooperate, they had Wanda and Hope there to rip the Phoenix from him. They knew they couldn't kill him until the Phoenix was out of them. They could, however, hurt him, and disrupt his concentration so that he'd stop burning down cities on the other side of the planet. Anyway, this is a derailment of the thread. You should argue about it elsewhere.

The Phoenix had been killed before...therefore, taking lethal action against it will always at least have a possibility of killing it. Where exactly did it say an arrow through the throat (an obvious attempt to kill under normal circumstances) was NOT an attempt to kill?

And I'm not derailing anything...you said Cyclops killed Xavier in cold blood and that simply isn't true...if you didn't want to debate the issue, you shouldn't have brought it up.

[Habis]

Frenzy killed Sharon and a busload of children with Down's Syndrome, and Cyclops married her. Masque mutilated a subway car of innocents during the Extremists arc. Cyclops didn't care.

As I said: Sociopath.

The writers ignoring the past of the characters and writing them without taking into account how a normal human being with feelings would react ends making the "heroes" a bunch of sociopathic monsters.