GRAYSON #6 Preview/Discussion

[K. Jones]

I've been without internet for a couple days so I haven't been able to jump in with my first reactions from Wednesday.

A while back in that "who would be the real opposite of Ra's al Ghul" thread I think I might've tossed the notion of Kathy Kane taking the "I, Spyder" identity from Seven Soldiers, what with the logic of Spyral, the spider web imagery, her father, and all the Ariadne allusions back in Incorporated.

So when the "Spyder" popped up here (in crazy form, no less) I thought "ahaha bingo!" but then I also thought; I don't think that woman is Kathy Kane unless something crazy is going on. Something weird. My brain went other places, too. The Sheeda, for instance. Between the Spyder and the God Garden for some reason I couldn't un-think The Sheeda, Gloriana Tenebrae, and the God Gardener kept making me think of "Fairy Godmothers". Obviously the imagery of triangles was playing strong here.

Anywho. That's rampant speculation and it's the kind that overlooks the importance of everything from The Tiger to the Fist of Cain.

Gotta backtrack and read all these lovely posts.

[K. Jones]

But wouldn't we know if someone had stolen MMs brain? I guess I'm confused as to where these organs are coming from, are they being removed from metas or are they being created? The stomach seemed to be created if I remember correctly.

The idea that Minos is Kathy Kane, that would be interesting!

I was just re-reading some of the earlier issues and it seems apparent that all these organs were cloned and installed into an artificial super-being ... who then proceeded to explode for some reason or another. He appears to have been called "Paragon", but the project itself was also called "The Paragon Project". As to whether the project engineers themselves were also called "Paragon" is unknown.

[K. Jones]

Yikes, this thread grew fast while I was out.



Oh, mostly because of how the Fist of Cain is using "the powers of the brain by filling people with hate and rage and thus making them kill to disprove a philosophy" which is a kinda contrived way to accomplish a mission considering that they can simply commit mass genocide to achieve the same objective basically.

Pretentious, perhaps!

Still, not as on-the-nose and blatant as Scott Snyder's Red Hood Gang, right? As a youthful optimist I shudder to think of the hordes of nihilistic young men and women my age. (I loved Snyder's Red Hood Gang.)

[K. Jones]

That Deathstroke mention in that one interview very clearly painted their philosophy on how they would use Deathstroke should he ever show up ... and how he fits into their "surrounding Dick with Batman-like types" sub-theme. Teacher. Mentor. Anti-Batman. It will be glorious.

Imagine Spyral literally assigns him to work with Slade.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

The Fist of Cain and its Leader seem like an interesting and villain with longevity, from their wierd cult like vibe which resembles the Warriors/Clock work orange gangs and the way that they are described as competive in their ranks looking for "points". Tiger is due for another appearance which seems likely for the next issue. I see why some people are refering to this as the most Marvel out of all the DC books due to its style being so different from the most DC books and the Spy genre in being much more developed. Grayson has opened up a Universe that can be a real strenght for DC. When he goes back to the Batfamily I hope his does not get overun with crossovers that end up bringing him back under Batman's shadow. I hope post convergence, that Grayson sticks with the same team ands gets a team book.

[dropkickjake]

Have we discussed that Dick lost his freaking Hypnos yet?! Cause people are gonna see his face soon.

[Claude]

Have we discussed that Dick lost his freaking Hypnos yet?! Cause people are gonna see his face soon.

....now that is a damn good point!

I'd assumed that Spyral could add a new one pretty easily, but this looks like it could be a long adventure for him.

[Dzetoun]

....now that is a damn good point!

I'd assumed that Spyral could add a new one pretty easily, but this looks like it could be a long adventure for him.

More likely the Gardener would simply give it back.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

Midnighter did say that the Garden will reverse engineer it at can locate Spyral

[HellHere]

I can't wait to find out what this pain Mino's won't let go of is.

[jules]

Have we discussed that Dick lost his freaking Hypnos yet?! Cause people are gonna see his face soon.

He also lost it in issue #5, when the EMP took it out. Of course, the difference then was that Helena also lost hers, and they clearly had them replaced when they got back to Spyral. This time Spyral may not know, unless Dick tells them or unless there's a tracking component built in. Which is possible, although Agent 8 and the Tiger said they tracked him "through the coms" rather than through the implant when they came after him in #3. In either case Dick is off the radar until he gets back to base.

More likely the Gardener would simply give it back.

I think this is quite likely. I like the idea of the hypnos implant; it gives Dick something unique that the rest of the Bat-family don't have, which is an asset to his current line of work, and is tech-based enough to fit in nicely in Gotham. But from the moment Helena took him down with the implant I thought he'd also have to find a way of disabling or modifying it so it couldn't be used as a weapon against him again. Well, we now have two ways of destroying it. And the technology of the God Garden looks like a promising means of analysing and modifying it. I think there's a good chance that Dick will end up going back with a God Garden approved version of the implant that doesn't have such pesky inconveniences.

[HsssH]

I was just re-reading some of the earlier issues and it seems apparent that all these organs were cloned and installed into an artificial super-being ... who then proceeded to explode for some reason or another. He appears to have been called "Paragon", but the project itself was also called "The Paragon Project". As to whether the project engineers themselves were also called "Paragon" is unknown.

As I understand Midnighter destroyed him/it.

[BatfanReborn]

300px-Nightwing_Vol_3_11.jpg
Paragon was the villain in Nightwing 10-12. Co-incidence?

[Dzetoun]

300px-Nightwing_Vol_3_11.jpg
Paragon was the villain in Nightwing 10-12. Co-incidence?

Yes. Seeley said on Twitter the Paragon they are working with is a new character/creature/whatever.

[BatfanReborn]

Yes. Seeley said on Twitter the Paragon they are working with is a new character/creature/whatever.

Thanks for the info.