GRAYSON #6 Preview/Discussion

[Fuzzy Cactus]

There will be plenty of "family tension".

[Claude]

If they fail in the task, we can be properly critical, .

I have faith in us.

[Rakiduam]

It doesn't seem that's what they want to do. Let's be fair. The writers are saying they intend to deal with these issues. We have criticized the situation in great detail. Now they deserve their chance to explore the impact, as King says. If they fail in the task, we can be properly critical, .

But that's the thing, the time to deal with these issues came and went, not just for Grayson but for the whole Bat line, you can't rewrite indifference. You can't have family tension when you don't have a family.

Dick has been effectivaly living in a silo since Grayson and he is better for it.

They created a world for Grayson that doesn't include Bruce's family or needs them. Why should Grayson sacrificate page space with unconnected characters?

[AlexanderLuthor]

Looks great, of course. My favorite DC book in a very long time. So, I see King is co-writing the Teen Titans annual. Is it to much to dream of a bigger role?

[RichSummers]

Damn. DAT ART.

[Claude]

But that's the thing, the time to deal with these issues came and went, not just for Grayson but for the whole Bat line, you can't rewrite indifference. You can't have family tension when you don't have a family.

Dick has been effectivaly living in a silo since Grayson and he is better for it.

They created a world for Grayson that doesn't include Bruce's family or needs them. Why should Grayson sacrificate page space with unconnected characters?

Basically, there's a world of difference between "Batfamily Sad That Dick Is Dead" and "Dick's old Family meet his new one, and his relationship with Helena is explored through comparison to his relationship with Batman and Batgirl".

Not least, the fact that the latter is a story and the former isn't. I can totally see - and even developed a catchphrase related to the quality of pages involved - why a creative team wouldn't want to take pages away from telling a story to show some Sad@Dick scenes. But a story fashioned around the clashing of the worlds sounds worth telling.

[Dzetoun]

Looks great, of course. My favorite DC book in a very long time. So, I see King is co-writing the Teen Titans annual. Is it to much to dream of a bigger role?

He was asked and said he would not be working with Teen Titans on a continuing basis. He also said there were some announcements coming, however. I'm thinking maybe a re-launched Superboy.

[Dzetoun]

Basically, there's a world of difference between "Batfamily Sad That Dick Is Dead" and "Dick's old Family meet his new one, and his relationship with Helena is explored through comparison to his relationship with Batman and Batgirl".

Not least, the fact that the latter is a story and the former isn't. I can totally see - and even developed a catchphrase related to the quality of pages involved - why a creative team wouldn't want to take pages away from telling a story to show some Sad@Dick scenes. But a story fashioned around the clashing of the worlds sounds worth telling.

Yes, worth telling. And it does allow them space to address multiple issues. Unfortunately, as Rakiduam rightly points out, D.C. dropped the ball badly early on, and I suppose a rather large amount of hand-waving is now unavoidable. But, the creative team deserves the chance to make the attempt.

[Rakiduam]

Basically, there's a world of difference between "Batfamily Sad That Dick Is Dead" and "Dick's old Family meet his new one, and his relationship with Helena is explored through comparison to his relationship with Batman and Batgirl".

Not least, the fact that the latter is a story and the former isn't. I can totally see - and even developed a catchphrase related to the quality of pages involved - why a creative team wouldn't want to take pages away from telling a story to show some Sad@Dick scenes. But a story fashioned around the clashing of the worlds sounds worth telling.

They need an old family to tell "Dick's old Family meet his new one" Batman is already in the book and, what relationship with Batgirl, again? All Dick and Barbara ever do around each other was being sad.

What clashing? Dick hasn't had a conversation with Tim in the new 52, the only conversation he had with Jason was to tell him to meddle in his own business and Damian didn't even note he was dead. And then of course everything else burned. So, really what world?

But I can think in a catchphrase related to the quality of pages involved, is ugh, really why?

[M L A]

Looks great, of course. My favorite DC book in a very long time. So, I see King is co-writing the Teen Titans annual. Is it to much to dream of a bigger role?

I wouldn't be too surprised if King were on another book after Convergence.

[Badou]

There will be plenty of "family tension".

Yeah, we are all looking forward to that... just what the Batman line needs more of.

[oasis1313]

It doesn't seem that's what they want to do. Let's be fair. The writers are saying they intend to deal with these issues. We have criticized the situation in great detail. Now they deserve their chance to explore the impact, as King says. If they fail in the task, we can be properly critical, .

This shouldn't be the responsibility of Seeley and King--they didn't make this mess. I want them to stay with Grayson forever and they shouldn't be bothered having to clean up after someone else's incompetence.

[Dzetoun]

Yeah, we are all looking forward to that... just what the Batman line needs more of.

Yeah, I know what you mean. But, in all honesty, given the storyline they have to work with, is their really any way to avoid it? At least the issues are pretty clear.

[Claude]

They need an old family to tell "Dick's old Family meet his new one" Batman is already in the book and, what relationship with Batgirl, again? All Dick and Barbara ever do around each other was being sad.

What clashing? Dick hasn't had a conversation with Tim in the new 52, the only conversation he had with Jason was to tell him to meddle in his own business and Damian didn't even note he was dead. And then of course everything else burned. So, really what world?

But I can think in a catchphrase related to the quality of pages involved, is ugh, really why?

Honestly? I think what Tynion's original Nightwing #30, and the Grayson Secret Origins, tells us is that if they wanted to tell a story where Dick and Tim Drake had to have some kind of emotional clash.... They'd sudden be, at always have been, The Very Best Of Friends. Just like he'd suddenly have a long and complicated relationship with Jason as soon as they met in circumstances that needed them to have one.

We're a few years into the reboot now, all the history that people "know" can be quickly slotted in again if need-be even if we haven't seen it on-panel.

[Rakiduam]

Honestly? I think what Tynion's original Nightwing #30, and the Grayson Secret Origins, tells us is that if they wanted to tell a story where Dick and Tim Drake had to have some kind of emotional clash.... They'd sudden be, at always have been, The Very Best Of Friends. Just like he'd suddenly have a long and complicated relationship with Jason as soon as they met in circumstances that needed them to have one.

We're a few years into the reboot now, all the history that people "know" can be quickly slotted in again if need-be even if we haven't seen it on-panel.

At this point everythinks tells us that Dick and Tim don't even have a relationship...

You want to read that? Resentments, hurt feelings and ugly relationships?

Personally I prefer to skip Barbara yelling at Dick like she does to Dinah or the outlaws resentful martyr complex or whatever this imaginary clash with Tim may bring. Probably what I'm going to do so it's pretty cool they are giving a early warning.