Shang Chi The Master Of Kung Fu Appreciation

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Chi, Fury, Natasha and Wu.
Attachment 35756

TERRIFIC image. Thanks for sharing!

[Winterboy]

You're welcome, my friend.

[codystarbuck]

I first discovered Shang-Chi back in the 70s. A neighbor had the first part of his battle with Mordillo and it was just amazing. The thing I always appreciated was the atmosphere that Doug Moench gave it in his writing, and Gulacy executed in his art. Their stories had tremendous pacing and they knew how to ratchet up the tension. Also, the mixture of James Bond and Bruce Lee made it different. I've usually been lukewarm to Shang Chi stories that are more kung fu movie plots. They seem less than the character. he was far more interesting when he was in a world of espionage, mystery, bizarre assassins, and criminal masterminds. Moench and Gulacy opened with a James Bond adventure, as Shang, Tarr and Reston go up against drug kingpin Carlton Velcro, who also has nuclear capability. Along the way, he runs into Razor Fist and Pavane, the latter would become a favorite recurring character. Right after that amazing debut, they upped it a notch with Mordillo and Brynocki, while introducing Leiko. This took Bond and mixed Lewsi Carroll and The Prisoner. Then, they slowed things down, as Shang went up against Shen Kui, The Cat. They were opposite numbers and evenly matched. Shang learned not to fully trust Nayland Smith, which added a new dynamic. It all built to the epic battle with Fu Manchu, as each chapter was told from a different point of view. After thing, and Gulacy's departure, Shang seemed less, as he faced more traditional threats.

Moench was able to regroup, with his China Seas saga, which brought back characters like Shen Kui, and paid tribute to Milton Caniff's Terry & the Pirates. We also got some excellent art and fight scenes from a young Mike Zeck. However, one name that seems forgotten; and, for me, was the last great MOKF artsist, was Gene Day. Day came in near the end; but, Moench found in him an artist who could deliver that same atmosphere and intrigue as Gulacy. Shen Kui returned and Carlton Velcro proved to be alive. here is one of my favorite covers and issues of Day's brief run:



Sadly, Day's run and the renewal of the series greatness was cut short by his untimely death. The series finally petered out and was gone for a while.

I haven't read much of the later era, other than the Marvel Comics presents revival (wasn't a fan) and the Max mini, with Moench and Gulacy reunited. Secret Avengers looks more along the lines of what I enjoyed. Shang works better out of the pajama outfit (it was too much of a stereotype) and in facing something beyond a run of the mill kung fu opponent. he needs that megalomaniac, with an army of bizarre lieutenants. It's that pulpy world that really makes the character shine, for me.

One of my few favorite non-Moench and MOKF stories was in Marvel Team-up 82-85. It was a multi-part tale that begins with an amnesiac Black Widow, which then brings in Nick Fury and Shang Chi, as they battle Silver Samurai, Viper, and Boomerang, who have taken over the SHIELD Helicarrier and plan on crashing it into the Capitol building, during the president's address of a joint session of Congress.

These are the types of stories I would prefer, for any Master of Kung Fu movie or tv series, more than a Marvel kung fu movie.

[Victor Freeman]

Shang is a gold mine. He is going to blow up when they do whatever they are going to do...movie or Netflix.

[Winterboy]

I cannot see Shang without the "espionage vibe". The Moench/Gulacy era (obviously) and Secret Avengers are my favorite stories. Just imagine Aja or Deodato drawing a MKF series...




Some stuffs I really would like to see updated...
http://diversionsofthegroovykind.blo...rt-ii-end.html




ps: I really miss Leiko Wu.

[Winterboy]

I loved Spider Island DHKF too. Antony Johnston did a great job writing Shang, Sable and Danny.

[Tien Long]

I reckon now that black panther has blown up in prominence, Shang chi will be next. It's all about finding the right creative team.



I think it's the father/son dynamic. Batman and Ra's don't really see each other in that father and son way, more like a son in law whereas with Shang it's all about rebellion against the status quo. In fact, that's probably the most prominent difference. Zheng lu supports and upholds the status quo and ra's wants it changed

Thank you for this post. Having not read the original series, I am interested in Zheng Zu's motivations. I do understand that he wants to take over the world, but what type of rule does he want to bring? When you say upholds the status quo, does he want to return things to something like a dynastic China? If so, that would be pretty cool, Zheng Zu wishing to form his own all-powerful dynasty, with him as the emperor.

I first discovered Shang-Chi back in the 70s. A neighbor had the first part of his battle with Mordillo and it was just amazing. The thing I always appreciated was the atmosphere that Doug Moench gave it in his writing, and Gulacy executed in his art. Their stories had tremendous pacing and they knew how to ratchet up the tension. Also, the mixture of James Bond and Bruce Lee made it different. I've usually been lukewarm to Shang Chi stories that are more kung fu movie plots. They seem less than the character. he was far more interesting when he was in a world of espionage, mystery, bizarre assassins, and criminal masterminds. Moench and Gulacy opened with a James Bond adventure, as Shang, Tarr and Reston go up against drug kingpin Carlton Velcro, who also has nuclear capability. Along the way, he runs into Razor Fist and Pavane, the latter would become a favorite recurring character. Right after that amazing debut, they upped it a notch with Mordillo and Brynocki, while introducing Leiko. This took Bond and mixed Lewsi Carroll and The Prisoner. Then, they slowed things down, as Shang went up against Shen Kui, The Cat. They were opposite numbers and evenly matched. Shang learned not to fully trust Nayland Smith, which added a new dynamic. It all built to the epic battle with Fu Manchu, as each chapter was told from a different point of view. After thing, and Gulacy's departure, Shang seemed less, as he faced more traditional threats.

Moench was able to regroup, with his China Seas saga, which brought back characters like Shen Kui, and paid tribute to Milton Caniff's Terry & the Pirates. We also got some excellent art and fight scenes from a young Mike Zeck. However, one name that seems forgotten; and, for me, was the last great MOKF artsist, was Gene Day. Day came in near the end; but, Moench found in him an artist who could deliver that same atmosphere and intrigue as Gulacy. Shen Kui returned and Carlton Velcro proved to be alive. here is one of my favorite covers and issues of Day's brief run:



Sadly, Day's run and the renewal of the series greatness was cut short by his untimely death. The series finally petered out and was gone for a while.

I haven't read much of the later era, other than the Marvel Comics presents revival (wasn't a fan) and the Max mini, with Moench and Gulacy reunited. Secret Avengers looks more along the lines of what I enjoyed. Shang works better out of the pajama outfit (it was too much of a stereotype) and in facing something beyond a run of the mill kung fu opponent. he needs that megalomaniac, with an army of bizarre lieutenants. It's that pulpy world that really makes the character shine, for me.

One of my few favorite non-Moench and MOKF stories was in Marvel Team-up 82-85. It was a multi-part tale that begins with an amnesiac Black Widow, which then brings in Nick Fury and Shang Chi, as they battle Silver Samurai, Viper, and Boomerang, who have taken over the SHIELD Helicarrier and plan on crashing it into the Capitol building, during the president's address of a joint session of Congress.

These are the types of stories I would prefer, for any Master of Kung Fu movie or tv series, more than a Marvel kung fu movie.

I hear ya. One of the things that I've grown accustomed to while learning more about Shang is this espionage background. I'm getting the impression that this aspect of espionage is very much rooted in the character that Bruce Lee played in "Enter the Dragon" who was an awesome character. What you've described, James Bond action, criminal masterminds, and bizarre assassins are what distinguish Shang from other martial arts-centered characters. These are qualities which should be retained in any forthcoming Shang-Chi comic.

Still, I wouldn't want Shang to forgo the Kung Fu, because the Kung Fu culture is vast and impressive. When I look at Shang, I see a character who should be doing something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeeoEpmyb2Y

or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DASVxFS5tg

or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LEfPMeF-bs

The Kung Fu is also connected with Chinese culture and history, and such things are filled with vast story potential. I see Shang fighting against Chinese hopping vampires with his Daoist sword, exploring the tombs of ancient dynastic emperors, battling assassins along old trade routes on the Silk Road, meeting Chinese gods like the Jade Emperor or Queen Mother of the West, or (my personal hope) duking it out with meat cleaver and gun-wielding Triads on the streets of Hong Kong.

Thus, I wouldn't want a comic featuring Shang to let go of what went before, but also make room for other stories.

[Winterboy]

i reckon now that black panther has blown up in prominence, shang chi will be next. It's all about finding the right creative team.

e.d. B.r.u.b.a.k.e.r

[codystarbuck]

Thank you for this post. Having not read the original series, I am interested in Zheng Zu's motivations. I do understand that he wants to take over the world, but what type of rule does he want to bring? When you say upholds the status quo, does he want to return things to something like a dynastic China? If so, that would be pretty cool, Zheng Zu wishing to form his own all-powerful dynasty, with him as the emperor.



I hear ya. One of the things that I've grown accustomed to while learning more about Shang is this espionage background. I'm getting the impression that this aspect of espionage is very much rooted in the character that Bruce Lee played in "Enter the Dragon" who was an awesome character. What you've described, James Bond action, criminal masterminds, and bizarre assassins are what distinguish Shang from other martial arts-centered characters. These are qualities which should be retained in any forthcoming Shang-Chi comic.

Still, I wouldn't want Shang to forgo the Kung Fu, because the Kung Fu culture is vast and impressive. When I look at Shang, I see a character who should be doing something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeeoEpmyb2Y

or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DASVxFS5tg

or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LEfPMeF-bs

The Kung Fu is also connected with Chinese culture and history, and such things are filled with vast story potential. I see Shang fighting against Chinese hopping vampires with his Daoist sword, exploring the tombs of ancient dynastic emperors, battling assassins along old trade routes on the Silk Road, meeting Chinese gods like the Jade Emperor or Queen Mother of the West, or (my personal hope) duking it out with meat cleaver and gun-wielding Triads on the streets of Hong Kong.

Thus, I wouldn't want a comic featuring Shang to let go of what went before, but also make room for other stories.

Kung Fu was still a major portion of the Moench and Gulacy period. Shang and his viewpoint is juxtaposed against Reston, Tarr and nayland Smith, with their "games of deceit," as Shang calls them. Shang is first convinced to help fight Velcro by viewing patients detoxing at a heroin treatment clinic. In the story where Shang Chi meets Shen Kui, the Cat, he is told that an MI-6 agent has recaptured MI-6 documents from the Chinese and that she needs to be protected. It turns out the documents are actually Chinese and that Shen Kui is only trying to protect his own country's secrets from Western theft. The MI-6 agent has fallen in love with Shen and must intercede to stop the battle between the evenly matched Shang and Shen Kui. Those issues featured some of Gulacy's best martial arts choreography.

Gulacy watched Enter the Dragon over and over, translating elements into his work. Bruce Lee was the basis for how he drew Shang (though less directly than some of the other characters). Fu Manchu was given hints of Christopher Lee, while Clive Reston visually favored Sean Connery, with a bit of Basil Rathbone (Reston is alluded to be Bond's illegitimate son and the Great-nephew of Sherlock Holmes). Julia, the MI-6 agent from the Shen Kui story, was based on marlene Dietrich, and the Fu Manchu epic features characters based on David Niven and Marlon Brando. The robot Brynocki, Mordillo's sidekick, was based on the mascot for the Big Boy restaurant chain.

The early MOKF, under Engelhart and Starlin, were more a mixture of kung fu films and the Sax Rhomer novels. They were fine; but nothing like Moench and Gulacy. They took that basic premise and threw in the world of James Bond, while embracing the pulp atmosphere of the Rhomer works (and which inhabits the James Bond novels).

I wouldn't mind elements of things like Chinese Ghost Story, or Once Upon a Time in China, or Zu Warriors in Shang Chi; but, I'd want it set firmly in a modern world, with those great spy-fi and pulp elements.

Part of the greatness of Fu Manchu, under Moench, was taking him beyond Rhomer, though Rhomer's Fu and the cinematic Fu were two different creatures. He seeks to restore the glory of China, but with himself at the head. He seeks to restore ancient China, with it's innovations and culture, but also it's rule of elites like himself, who are masters of science and learning. He will use any means to gain that and considers himself above such petty concerns as morals. Shang originally believe's his father is a great man and is sent to kill Dr Petrie, who Fu says is an enemy out to destroy his work. Shang encounters Nayland Smith, who reveals the truth to Shang and convinces him that Fu is a monster. Shang grapples with this quite a bit under Moench and it informs the plot of the Fu Manchu epic (which rages across several issues, leading to issue 50).

Throughout it all, Shang tries to remain true to the teachings and disciplines to which he dedicated his life, which puts him in conflict with both sides of his battles. That's what made it so great and so different, in the 70s. It was a book that statrted out as a quick attempt to cash in on a fad (a long-standing Timely/Atlas/Marvel tradition) that turned into one of the most original series of the Bronze Age.

[Demon Bowler]

I cannot see Shang without the "espionage vibe". The Moench/Gulacy era (obviously) and Secret Avengers are my favorite stories. Just imagine Aja or Deodato drawing a MKF series...

I love those comic issues.

[Winterboy]

Where's Aja btw?

Ultimately, he is only drawing Scarlet Witch covers...

[Tony Stark]

I cannot see Shang without the "espionage vibe". The Moench/Gulacy era (obviously) and Secret Avengers are my favorite stories. Just imagine Aja or Deodato drawing a MKF series...




Some stuffs I really would like to see updated...
http://diversionsofthegroovykind.blo...rt-ii-end.html




ps: I really miss Leiko Wu.

Preach it sister!

[Tien Long]

Kung Fu was still a major portion of the Moench and Gulacy period. Shang and his viewpoint is juxtaposed against Reston, Tarr and nayland Smith, with their "games of deceit," as Shang calls them. Shang is first convinced to help fight Velcro by viewing patients detoxing at a heroin treatment clinic. In the story where Shang Chi meets Shen Kui, the Cat, he is told that an MI-6 agent has recaptured MI-6 documents from the Chinese and that she needs to be protected. It turns out the documents are actually Chinese and that Shen Kui is only trying to protect his own country's secrets from Western theft. The MI-6 agent has fallen in love with Shen and must intercede to stop the battle between the evenly matched Shang and Shen Kui. Those issues featured some of Gulacy's best martial arts choreography.

Gulacy watched Enter the Dragon over and over, translating elements into his work. Bruce Lee was the basis for how he drew Shang (though less directly than some of the other characters). Fu Manchu was given hints of Christopher Lee, while Clive Reston visually favored Sean Connery, with a bit of Basil Rathbone (Reston is alluded to be Bond's illegitimate son and the Great-nephew of Sherlock Holmes). Julia, the MI-6 agent from the Shen Kui story, was based on marlene Dietrich, and the Fu Manchu epic features characters based on David Niven and Marlon Brando. The robot Brynocki, Mordillo's sidekick, was based on the mascot for the Big Boy restaurant chain.

The early MOKF, under Engelhart and Starlin, were more a mixture of kung fu films and the Sax Rhomer novels. They were fine; but nothing like Moench and Gulacy. They took that basic premise and threw in the world of James Bond, while embracing the pulp atmosphere of the Rhomer works (and which inhabits the James Bond novels).

I wouldn't mind elements of things like Chinese Ghost Story, or Once Upon a Time in China, or Zu Warriors in Shang Chi; but, I'd want it set firmly in a modern world, with those great spy-fi and pulp elements.

Part of the greatness of Fu Manchu, under Moench, was taking him beyond Rhomer, though Rhomer's Fu and the cinematic Fu were two different creatures. He seeks to restore the glory of China, but with himself at the head. He seeks to restore ancient China, with it's innovations and culture, but also it's rule of elites like himself, who are masters of science and learning. He will use any means to gain that and considers himself above such petty concerns as morals. Shang originally believe's his father is a great man and is sent to kill Dr Petrie, who Fu says is an enemy out to destroy his work. Shang encounters Nayland Smith, who reveals the truth to Shang and convinces him that Fu is a monster. Shang grapples with this quite a bit under Moench and it informs the plot of the Fu Manchu epic (which rages across several issues, leading to issue 50).

Throughout it all, Shang tries to remain true to the teachings and disciplines to which he dedicated his life, which puts him in conflict with both sides of his battles. That's what made it so great and so different, in the 70s. It was a book that statrted out as a quick attempt to cash in on a fad (a long-standing Timely/Atlas/Marvel tradition) that turned into one of the most original series of the Bronze Age.

Dude, thanks for the Shang-Chi primer! It's nice to see where Gulacy and Moench were going with these characters. Again, these descriptions point to how different Shang is from just another run of the mill Bruce Lee/Kung Fu pastiche. The espionage elements should still remain part of the character.

However, should elements of Bruce Lee remain part of the character? With this I'm kinda torn. Indeed, I'm a huge fan of Bruce Lee (been to the Bruce Lee exhibit here at the Hong Kong Heritage Museum at least 5 or 6 times. You guys should definitely check it out if you've the chance.) But at the same time, you want Shang to not just be another Bruce Lee pastiche. So while something like this looks totally badass rocking a Bruce Lee pose...



...it feels a little worn. Thus, cosmetically, maybe we can have Shang sporting a new look, something small like a new hair style or even a different Kung Fu pose. At the same time, we still retain that Bruce Lee "Enter the Dragon" character vibe from before.

As for the Zheng Zu's motivations, I dig it. Megalomania and world domination always makes for a terrific villain. I can see him in the midst of making a new dynasty. Now that you mention it, the Zheng Dynasty has a nice ring to it. Part of me feels that Fu Manchu was WAY more powerful and conniving than the comics led us to believe. Being so long lived, I could see him playing the long term game in terms of his plans. I could see him being very secretive with just how much he actually controlled. While Apocalypse, Magneto, Hydra, and Dr. Doom make grand announcements about taking over the world, I can see Zheng Zu quietly working in the shadows. Yes, he'll attract attention, like a couple of MI-6 agents and his son, but not TOO MUCH attention, with groups like the Avengers or the X-Men. That is a very, VERY Chinese way of doing things. Do just enough, expend just enough to get something done.

Part of the greatness of Fu Manchu, under Moench, was taking him beyond Rhomer, though Rhomer's Fu and the cinematic Fu were two different creatures. He seeks to restore the glory of China, but with himself at the head. He seeks to restore ancient China, with it's innovations and culture, but also it's rule of elites like himself, who are masters of science and learning. He will use any means to gain that and considers himself above such petty concerns as morals. Shang originally believe's his father is a great man and is sent to kill Dr Petrie, who Fu says is an enemy out to destroy his work. Shang encounters Nayland Smith, who reveals the truth to Shang and convinces him that Fu is a monster. Shang grapples with this quite a bit under Moench and it informs the plot of the Fu Manchu epic (which rages across several issues, leading to issue 50).

This conflict that Shang endures is something I'd love to see in a new storyline where the unthinkable happens: Shang takes over his father's empire. Don't ask me how it might happen, all I know is that I'd LOVE to see it happen. Indeed, what happens when this peaceful, compassionate, detached from the world martial artist suddenly is given an army of assassins and criminal enterprise? Can he still maintain his honor and dignity or will he succumb to darkness and evil? Yeah, yeah, Dardevil did this with Shadowland, but still, it would be awesome to see.

[codystarbuck]

Dude, thanks for the Shang-Chi primer! It's nice to see where Gulacy and Moench were going with these characters. Again, these descriptions point to how different Shang is from just another run of the mill Bruce Lee/Kung Fu pastiche. The espionage elements should still remain part of the character.

However, should elements of Bruce Lee remain part of the character? With this I'm kinda torn. Indeed, I'm a huge fan of Bruce Lee (been to the Bruce Lee exhibit here at the Hong Kong Heritage Museum at least 5 or 6 times. You guys should definitely check it out if you've the chance.) But at the same time, you want Shang to not just be another Bruce Lee pastiche. So while something like this looks totally badass rocking a Bruce Lee pose...



...it feels a little worn. Thus, cosmetically, maybe we can have Shang sporting a new look, something small like a new hair style or even a different Kung Fu pose. At the same time, we still retain that Bruce Lee "Enter the Dragon" character vibe from before.

As for the Zheng Zu's motivations, I dig it. Megalomania and world domination always makes for a terrific villain. I can see him in the midst of making a new dynasty. Now that you mention it, the Zheng Dynasty has a nice ring to it. Part of me feels that Fu Manchu was WAY more powerful and conniving than the comics led us to believe. Being so long lived, I could see him playing the long term game in terms of his plans. I could see him being very secretive with just how much he actually controlled. While Apocalypse, Magneto, Hydra, and Dr. Doom make grand announcements about taking over the world, I can see Zheng Zu quietly working in the shadows. Yes, he'll attract attention, like a couple of MI-6 agents and his son, but not TOO MUCH attention, with groups like the Avengers or the X-Men. That is a very, VERY Chinese way of doing things. Do just enough, expend just enough to get something done.



This conflict that Shang endures is something I'd love to see in a new storyline where the unthinkable happens: Shang takes over his father's empire. Don't ask me how it might happen, all I know is that I'd LOVE to see it happen. Indeed, what happens when this peaceful, compassionate, detached from the world martial artist suddenly is given an army of assassins and criminal enterprise? Can he still maintain his honor and dignity or will he succumb to darkness and evil? Yeah, yeah, Dardevil did this with Shadowland, but still, it would be awesome to see.

To me, Bruce Lee is essential to Shang Chi. Prior to Lee, the vast majority of Hong Kong kung fu films were period pieces, set in the past. They were usually tales of dueling philosophies of kung fu, with a spiritual hero and a greedy villain, or bandits preying on the weak, or similar basic good vs evil themes. Bruce Lee is one of the first "modern" kung fu heroes, and certainly the most successful. For years after his peak, Hong Kong was dedicated to replicating his films and formulas. Lee's films were (mostly) set in the present, as was his breakout role of Kato, which was a huge hit in Hong Kong. Enter the Dragon is his masterpiece, though Game of Death was supposed to top it, until his untimely death. He is a modern Chinese man who is taking on killers and criminals, but for his own motivations and with more modern techniques. Previous films revolved around elaborate scenes of technique and counter technique, until the hero gains the upper hand or unleashes a super-technique. Lee's philosophy centered around fast strikes, a varied attack (based on fighting ranges) and devastating power. You don't see as many long exchanges as much as you see him plow through multiple opponents, on his way to the bigger guns. Game of Death has him take out the grunts to get to the mysteries at the different levels of the building, each of which he has to defeat. The ultimate mystery opponent is at the top, the giant fighter (Kareem Abdul Jabbar). It was that modern kung fu hero that informed Shang Chi, more than any other influence, especially under Moench. Moench and Gulacy took Shang out of the pajamas; but, were forced to put him back. However, they used every opportunity to put him in more modern attire. The Si Fan were in modern uniforms and used high tech weaponry. Only Fu Manchu remained in traditional robes.

No, you still need that Bruce Lee template of modern kung fu warrior, who employs techniques from all disciplines, based on what works best for the situation. That was the center of Jeet Kun Do. Bruce was truly one of the pioneers of the mixed martial arts fighter, which is ably demonstrated at the beginning of Enter the Dragon, when he fights Sammo Hung. He uses grappling techniques as well as traditional kung fu strikes. There were grappling-based forms of kung fu; but, they weren't as prominent as the striking forms. Bruce trained with Gene Le Bell, a pro wrestler and champion judoka (AAU Champion) in submission grappling techniques, well before Gracie jiu-jitsu became known. He also combined boxing footwork and combinations with traditional kung fu strikes and kicks. He was a dancer and understood the value of movement to avoid an opponents attack and set up a counter-attack. That's Shang Chi, in the best of creative hands (and it doesn't get better than Moench and Gulacy).

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Very good reasoning to me.