ERASING WOMEN: The Importance of "Agent Carter" to Comic Culture

[ouroboros]

One piece of history that Ms. Campbell oversimplifies: Wonder Woman was not the JSA's secretary during the entire early run. She first appears in All-Star #11 and disposes of an entire Japanese invasion force, and has other independent adventures before she's relegated to secretarial duties. No pro from that time period ever commented on the changeover, so anything we say today is speculation. However, there is a rumor that Wonder Woman's creator, who had some authorial control of his character, may have ticked off All-Star's editors by changing an assigned script-- after which he was "punished" by having his character relegated to secretarial status. I guess it's sexual discrimination in a roundabout way, but it doesn't quite fit the paradigm presented.

As I said, it's speculation-- but I see nothing else that explains why Wonder Woman dropped her secretary duties in JSA after Marston passed in 1947.

[ouroboros]

I think it's less the individual instance (and even more so when it is the first, chronologically) and more that there is a continuing series of similar events. It became shorthand to convey emotional loss. Because it is shorthand and shows lack of effort, it falls back on stock actions---and the stock, stereotypical action betrays some rather disturbing tendencies.

But would the tendencies be any less disturbing if the majority of the depowered victims were male?

[Ed Love]

Both of you read that section very differently than I did.

She says:


It had nothing to do with Peggy being named Betty in the drama (seriously, stop focusing on that), it was all about how Cap's girl on the radio was such a submissive character and not like Peggy was and how that was actually a role seen as a woman's role in real life.

Maybe read it this way: the radio version of Peggy is transformed into ... the helpless nurse/damsel in distress who depends on Captain America to save her. We laugh as [she] bleats, "If only Captain America was here to rescue me!" But when the stars of postwar comics such as "Young Love" or "Career Girl Romances" declared "I guess from now on, I'll forget my silly notion of trying to act like a man!" audiences weren't supposed to laugh. They were supposed to agree.

Ok, I can see your point here. And this was more or less true of much juvenile fiction of the time (although there were plenty of strong willed and capable women in the serials and comics as well, ironically, one being the love interest of the Captain America serial who was a better shot than the bad guys). But, it's still a bit of a cheat as in-story, the writers of the radio show probably are not aware of Peggy Carter, her role and capabilities... their big crime is not changing a strong character into a weaker one but not thinking of creating a stronger female lead in the first place. So, it's not fair to hold it up as serving as an example of how strong characters were changed into weaker, passive ones.

And, almost all sidekicks of the time fit that role whether female or male, adult or kid. Especially in the radio shows which tended to skew younger and had the problem of a very limited time frame and cast. Part of the role of the sidekick was to give the hero someone to talk/explain things to and to save, thus making the hero look all that much better. The real problem, is that it was so rarely reversed. There weren't that many radio shows featuring a female lead detective/hero that always had to rescue the adult male side-kick. The few serials featuring female lead heroes, tended to have her as being more equal to the male romantic interest, only a few times actually better. Only in the comics where female heroes were the leads, were the female heroes having to rescue their male boyfriends more often than not much as the male heroes did their girlfriends in their comics. The important thing about Steve Trevor in Wonder Woman was not that it was making the comic a sort-of romance comic, but that he served the same role that Lois Lane and other countless girl-friends of the male heroes. He wanted/pursued a romance that she kept at bay and set up stumbling blocks for. He was also so smitten with the larger than life glamorous hero, that he failed to see those qualities in the hero's secret identity ten feet away from him. We got this also in the Black Cat comic.

[Ed Love]

One piece of history that Ms. Campbell oversimplifies: Wonder Woman was not the JSA's secretary during the entire early run. She first appears in All-Star #11 and disposes of an entire Japanese invasion force, and has other independent adventures before she's relegated to secretarial duties. No pro from that time period ever commented on the changeover, so anything we say today is speculation. However, there is a rumor that Wonder Woman's creator, who had some authorial control of his character, may have ticked off All-Star's editors by changing an assigned script-- after which he was "punished" by having his character relegated to secretarial status. I guess it's sexual discrimination in a roundabout way, but it doesn't quite fit the paradigm presented.

As I said, it's speculation-- but I see nothing else that explains why Wonder Woman dropped her secretary duties in JSA after Marston passed in 1947.

Have to admit, the Marston/Peters Wonder Woman chapters were always surreal compared to the rest of the book. I wonder... my impression of the golden-age JSA was that early on, they tried to have the creators of the solo strips do their hero's chapters in the JSA book, but this changed so we only have Simon & Kirby on one or two of the Sandman stories in the JSA. If Marson had creative control, it could very well be that he simply didn't want to let anyone else do the Wonder Woman chapters even though editorial wanted a creative team that had the chapters fit more in-style with the rest of the book.

[ouroboros]

Ok, I can see your point here. And this was more or less true of much juvenile fiction of the time (although there were plenty of strong willed and capable women in the serials and comics as well, ironically, one being the love interest of the Captain America serial who was a better shot than the bad guys). But, it's still a bit of a cheat as in-story, the writers of the radio show probably are not aware of Peggy Carter, her role and capabilities... their big crime is not changing a strong character into a weaker one but not thinking of creating a stronger female lead in the first place. So, it's not fair to hold it up as serving as an example of how strong characters were changed into weaker, passive ones.

And, almost all sidekicks of the time fit that role whether female or male, adult or kid. Especially in the radio shows which tended to skew younger and had the problem of a very limited time frame and cast. Part of the role of the sidekick was to give the hero someone to talk/explain things to and to save, thus making the hero look all that much better. The real problem, is that it was so rarely reversed. There weren't that many radio shows featuring a female lead detective/hero that always had to rescue the adult male side-kick. The few serials featuring female lead heroes, tended to have her as being more equal to the male romantic interest, only a few times actually better. Only in the comics where female heroes were the leads, were the female heroes having to rescue their male boyfriends more often than not much as the male heroes did their girlfriends in their comics. The important thing about Steve Trevor in Wonder Woman was not that it was making the comic a sort-of romance comic, but that he served the same role that Lois Lane and other countless girl-friends of the male heroes. He wanted/pursued a romance that she kept at bay and set up stumbling blocks for. He was also so smitten with the larger than life glamorous hero, that he failed to see those qualities in the hero's secret identity ten feet away from him. We got this also in the Black Cat comic.

I would also add that the radio-show's use of a "helpless female" is something that the show AGENT CARTER is satirizing. Why else would the producers intercut scenes (in the second episode) in which the Betty character is screaming helplessly during a fight, while in "real life," Agent Carter is kicking the butt of a male adversary. This is actually pretty typical of post-war heroines like Blonde Phantom and Black Canary, who beat down gangs of criminals while the male sidekicks stand around with their thumbs in their, er, pants.

Most critics overlook the fact that the sidekick's role, regardless of gender or age, is to make the main hero look more accomplished. Thus the mere fact that you may have a lesser female sidekick in one strip does not "prove" sexism any more than a lesser male sidekick in another strip proves that the creators were wonderfully liberated.

[ouroboros]

Have to admit, the Marston/Peters Wonder Woman chapters were always surreal compared to the rest of the book. I wonder... my impression of the golden-age JSA was that early on, they tried to have the creators of the solo strips do their hero's chapters in the JSA book, but this changed so we only have Simon & Kirby on one or two of the Sandman stories in the JSA. If Marson had creative control, it could very well be that he simply didn't want to let anyone else do the Wonder Woman chapters even though editorial wanted a creative team that had the chapters fit more in-style with the rest of the book.

I have seen a quote on another board, attributed to one of Marston's relatives, who claimed that Marston hated the secretarial thing. That's one other reason I favor the "editorial punishment" scenario.

[America / Bucky / Russia]

Both of you read that section very differently than I did.

It had nothing to do with Peggy being named Betty in the drama (seriously, stop focusing on that), it was all about how Cap's girl on the radio was such a submissive character and not like Peggy was and how that was actually a role seen as a woman's role in real life.

Maybe read it this way: the radio version of Peggy is transformed into ... the helpless nurse/damsel in distress who depends on Captain America to save her. We laugh as [she] bleats, "If only Captain America was here to rescue me!" But when the stars of postwar comics such as "Young Love" or "Career Girl Romances" declared "I guess from now on, I'll forget my silly notion of trying to act like a man!" audiences weren't supposed to laugh. They were supposed to agree.

Don't worry, I was commenting on what Ed was saying; it wasn't a strand of the argument I noticed when reading the article so I assumed it was something I missed or skimmed over. It's a very neat theory, and it just shows how much respect the series has for Marvel's vast canon. People are proclaiming the win that will be Captain Marvel, but this is the real victory. An ongoing story set in post-war America about Captain America's love interest and Tony Stark's dad, whilst hanging out with the butler from the comics. I'm sure most networks would look at that pitch and think of it as bad fanfiction. But beyond that surface level concept, it strikes me that I'm surprised we don't see more series or films like this. When studying GCSE I found it fascinating how women had gained a lot more power, and then suddenly lost it. We see racial liberation and sexual liberation and orientation liberation as being within the latter half of the 20th century - but they have strands dating back decades and centuries before we were confronted with the images of 1960s protest that seems to stick with us a little more. Marvel have done a remarkable job, even in just the last year, of stacking us up with female characters. And when Marvel does that, it seems so odd that the dominance of male heroes and characters was never an issue for me. Now it's half of what I think about. Because what this series does isn't just give as an amazing contemporary hero - it tackles modern issues of representation through a historical lens, almost as a reasoning to say "female heroes have always been here."

And as a massive fan of The First Avenger - it was what got me into Marvel in the first place - the 1940s era really does sit well with me. With the first episode, I didn't so much pick up on the Blonde Phantom allusion (although a very cool nod, if intentional), but I saw her as a bit of a femme fatale, very much suiting the period. But rather than being a supporting character, or the object of the man, she is the protagonist who pretends to love the man, pretends to be a gorgeous blonde, when actually she's only there to perform heists. And the episode continues these noir elements - the secret meeting between Peggy and Jarvis, first in the alley and later in the diner, and the shooting of Peggy's roommate. I hate how she became a disposable character, but it just shows the lack of safety and brutality back then. And Peggy gets to show emotion - real emotion.

That idea of masks is what stuck out to me as Golden Age to me. Back then, nothing could be ridiculous. Captain America and Bucky can dress up as grandmother and son, and it sits quite well. The villains were always a case of false identity, very much a Scooby Doo thing - a man wears a literal mask in order to impersonate an official and sabotage the country so Germany can take a chunk out of it. It's a great theme to see here.

Major props for featuring a high-powered black man, too. It would have been just as easy to use a white character, but I think his race here adds an interesting dimension which I applaud Marvel more. I'm just upset I need to wait until tomorrow for the next episode! It's just a shame that I've tried to get some friends into the MCU to watch it, and they don't see the appeal of watching a series about post-war character from the Captain America films. Because obviously Hulkbuster and Ultron are way more exciting. But personally, this series goes the deepest Marvel Studios have gone into giving a story real meaning beyond enjoyable superhero tropes - only really matched by the themes of modern government and privacy in The Winter Soldier - which truly elevates it to enjoyable.

[Reviresco]

This is a great article, that brings up good points, but I wish the author hadn't been so eager to prove her point, since some of her points are undercut by flawed arguments.

I mean even the thesis isn't entirely correct, and worse, can turn folks away from a wonderfully entertaining show.

"Agent Carter" is a superhero show about the postwar erasure of women from American culture

That's ONE of the things going on in Agent Carter. It's NOT what the show is all about.

-- which is incredibly fitting, as after World War II the comics industry erased women on the page and behind the scenes. As a comics community, we need to address the fact that women in comics is not a new occurrence. Women have been here since day one, a fact that is often ignored because this postwar erasure of women from our culture worked so well.

I agree with the bolded entirely, and there's definitely some of the rest going on, but I don't think the comics industry consciously targeted women. The industry of that time didn't think any comic creators of any gender were particularly worth recognizing. Part of the reason why those Golden Age women behind the scenes aren't known is because Golden Age comics didn't have credits. Often we don't know who wrote or drew a book, much less the colorists or letterers.

[Tighelander]

At the end of WWII, just as women were laid off in favor of the returning GIs, African Americans were also let go.

[PhantomReporter]

Another thing not taken into consideration is that this series is taking place in between parts of the Agent Carter One Shot which ends i believe late in 1946 with Peggy getting her due and the sexist agents including her boss being obliged to salute her.

[Andrew]

I really liked this article. I had no idea so many women were a part of the creation of comics, or how erasure sought to stamp them out. Hopefully things get better for the industry and more representation in entertainment in general is never a bad thing.

[Darth Weevil]

I really liked this article. I had no idea so many women were a part of the creation of comics, or how erasure sought to stamp them out. Hopefully things get better for the industry and more representation in entertainment in general is never a bad thing.

Yes. I would love to see, for instance, some "women in the Golden Age" collections from Marvel and DC, focusing on not just the female characters, but also the female creators. So much Golden Age stuff is just entirely unavailable in reprint.

[George Caltsoudas]

That's weird... my comment got deleted from this thread.

But it was just one sentence where I agreed with someone else's statement that it's refreshingly fun to see a female version of the "Clark Kent" effect where she is disregarded by everyone around her under her true identity but respected and admired for her excellent work as a secret vigilante by those same characters, unbeknownst to them that it is the same person.

Why would a positive comment get censored?

[cranger]

While I don't think the article was perfect, I certainly don't think it was written with the intent to make anyone feel ashamed.

I was only referencing someone else's comment. Though I can see how they might infer that there was some shame or guilt to be felt by enjoying a medium that has been seen as predominantly catered to males since being stolen from the women who made it so great.

That's weird... my comment got deleted from this thread.

If you quoted a post that was deleted then it is likely your post would have been deleted too. Not sure if that is what happened here but that is often the reason for non-offensive posts getting deleted.

[PretenderNX01]

Most critics overlook the fact that the sidekick's role, regardless of gender or age, is to make the main hero look more accomplished. Thus the mere fact that you may have a lesser female sidekick in one strip does not "prove" sexism any more than a lesser male sidekick in another strip proves that the creators were wonderfully liberated.

No one individual instance doesn't but when you add up the number of men rescuing women and compare it to the handful of women who rescued men, it does prove the author's point.

And I think really only Wonder Woman got a gal-pal with Etta (until later in the Silver Age when Wonder Girl was added), whereas Batman had Robin, Cap had Bucky, Sandman got Sandy the Golden Boy and so on. Blonde Phantom and Liberty Belle didn't get a girl to hang out with. Black Canary rescuing Larry Lance was seen more as a parody at the time then something women could actually do.

Peggy may have that with Angie though at least.