Natasha Romanov: Black Widow Appreciation 2018

[tliscord]

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Yup, I'm with you on that. If not their own series then as supporting cast at least for Cap.

[Captain Craig]

Well having read SE#7 it's a bit more obvious as to why there is no immediate Legacy Black Widow title forthcoming.
Still, we all know a reset is coming so let's not trouble ourselves just yet Natasha fandom.

[millernumber1]

Well having read SE#7 it's a bit more obvious as to why there is no immediate Legacy Black Widow title forthcoming.
Still, we all know a reset is coming so let's not trouble ourselves just yet Natasha fandom.

Even if a reset happens, I don't enjoy watching her die.

[Bl00dwerK]

Well. The best reason to read Secret Empire is gone...

[PaxHouse]

Even if a reset happens, I don't enjoy watching her die.

.....Yes, it's true that both Natasha and Bucky were 'sacrificed' {for lack of a better word} within the context of this Event; still the readers can't deny how these tragedies truly reflects upon how totally chaotic the SECRET EMPIRE has becoming, especially for HydraCap.

Well. The best reason to read Secret Empire is gone...

.....Even with Natasha 'gone', I suspect that there're still plenty other reasona nonetheless.

[Bl00dwerK]

Still, we all know a reset is coming so let's not trouble ourselves just yet Natasha fandom.

There is that. I mean, it's not like they don't just bring everybody back anyway.

[millernumber1]

.....Yes, it's true that both Natasha and Bucky were 'sacrificed' {for lack of a better word} within the context of this Event; still the readers can't deny how these tragedies truly reflects upon how totally chaotic the SECRET EMPIRE has becoming, especially for HydraCap.

.....Even with Natasha 'gone', I suspect that there're still plenty other reasona nonetheless.

Not really. I don't read much Marvel outside of specific characters, and Nat was the only one I was really invested in for Secret Empire.

There is that. I mean, it's not like they don't just bring everybody back anyway.

Bad storytelling.

[Bl00dwerK]

Bad storytelling.

Yep. It's a crutch. Writers want to give their stories stakes, but fans know nobody stays dead. On the plus side the more characters they kill off the more likely there's some kind of reset.

[millernumber1]

Yep. It's a crutch. Writers want to give their stories stakes, but fans know nobody stays dead. On the plus side the more characters they kill off the more likely there's some kind of reset.

Exactly. Stakes are defined by consequences. If there are no real consequences, readers will figure out that there are no stakes.

Either that, or people will need to figure out how to develop tension without relying on false stakes. Focus on making the "how will they get out of this" interesting, rather than the false question of "will they get out of this".

[tliscord]

Yep. It's a crutch. Writers want to give their stories stakes, but fans know nobody stays dead. On the plus side the more characters they kill off the more likely there's some kind of reset.

I know it can be frustrating, but don't we all want stakes to the story? We want that cathartic moment, that emotional tug. Yet, I want my heroes to prevail in the end. I surely don't want them dead ... at least for long. Death, depowered, lost, captured, or changed, stories need something the protagonist overcomes.

On the other hand I cannot imagine how FF fans have managed since Secret Wars. But I guess that's how Hickman wrote such a successful series, stakes were high, things were lost, and we all experienced it. I thought Natasha's role here was remarkable and her death devastating to me. For myself the question is not whether she'll be back, but how is it accomplished. That will be how we judge Spencer's story. Is it unique or flat uninteresting?

I want a story with high stakes, a creative ending, and continuity moving forward, and by that I mean my character lives on in a recognizable form. Not interested in following HydraCap. Nor am I interested in a dead Widow for long. My struggle has been how Marvel and others play a longer game now. We still live without Reed and Sue, Nick Fury remains firmly planted on the moon in chains, and so forth. But in the end, maybe that just raises the stakes?

[millernumber1]

I know it can be frustrating, but don't we all want stakes to the story? We want that cathartic moment, that emotional tug. Yet, I want my heroes to prevail in the end. I surely don't want them dead ... at least for long. Death, depowered, lost, captured, or changed, stories need something the protagonist overcomes.

On the other hand I cannot imagine how FF fans have managed since Secret Wars. But I guess that's how Hickman wrote such a successful series, stakes were high, things were lost, and we all experienced it. I thought Natasha's role here was remarkable and her death devastating to me. For myself the question is not whether she'll be back, but how is it accomplished. That will be how we judge Spencer's story. Is it unique or flat uninteresting?

I want a story with high stakes, a creative ending, and continuity moving forward, and by that I mean my character lives on in a recognizable form. Not interested in following HydraCap. Nor am I interested in a dead Widow for long. My struggle has been how Marvel and others play a longer game now. We still live without Reed and Sue, Nick Fury remains firmly planted on the moon in chains, and so forth. But in the end, maybe that just raises the stakes?

I could not care less about stakes, if they are stakes concerning 'will this character die?' Because they won't. Or it won't matter. I want consequences in relationships, consequences in status quo, and accomplishments or failures in meeting goals.

[tliscord]

I could not care less about stakes, if they are stakes concerning 'will this character die?' Because they won't. Or it won't matter. I want consequences in relationships, consequences in status quo, and accomplishments or failures in meeting goals.

Well then maybe that trope has been over used. I agree with you, I love good character moments, exploring relationships and so forth. Death as a stake does infer permanence and that doesn't always need to happen for me to be on the "edge of my seat". But it's comics so life and death are used. Again, how the writer creatively spins that matters most in how I feel about a story. Still, your right I'm going to miss Natasha's role for the remainder of the series. And it's true, I was angry when Remender killed off Sharon Carter in Dimension Z. Not to mention we've now lost the Winter Soldier early on in this run and he's nowhere to be seen. So clearly Spencer is counting on the body count to move the story. I certainly don't feel uplifted with any of the issues, although I admit having Natasha rough up Frank was a pleasure. I'd have preferred Sharon to have put HydrCap out of his misery too.... or at least out of mine. His sappiness for his mission and his "mother" Elisa must have been written to stimulate my nausea center.

[Winterboy]

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Yup, I'm with you on that. If not their own series then as supporting cast at least for Cap.

They are made for each other and to lead a Secret Avengers team.

[millernumber1]

Well then maybe that trope has been over used. I agree with you, I love good character moments, exploring relationships and so forth. Death as a stake does infer permanence and that doesn't always need to happen for me to be on the "edge of my seat". But it's comics so life and death are used. Again, how the writer creatively spins that matters most in how I feel about a story. Still, your right I'm going to miss Natasha's role for the remainder of the series. And it's true, I was angry when Remender killed off Sharon Carter in Dimension Z. Not to mention we've now lost the Winter Soldier early on in this run and he's nowhere to be seen. So clearly Spencer is counting on the body count to move the story. I certainly don't feel uplifted with any of the issues, although I admit having Natasha rough up Frank was a pleasure. I'd have preferred Sharon to have put HydrCap out of his misery too.... or at least out of mine. His sappiness for his mission and his "mother" Elisa must have been written to stimulate my nausea center.

The whole event is marked by a duality - really interesting moments that work in an Alternate Universe sort of context, like HydraCap wielding the hammer, or the way the fights in this issue were portrayed artistically - combined with the complete implausibility of how everything goes to dystopia overnight - that kind of stuff takes infrastructure, man.

Nat's voice was pretty well done (with the exception that she served as a "we made this country horrible" authorial monologue that trashes her own backstory), which is why I was keeping up with the series, and there were fun moments like Pymtron, but on the whole, it's just so uneven and far-fetched that I have difficulty wanting to continue now that Nat is gone.

[rui no onna]

They are made for each other and to lead a Secret Avengers team.

Yep. I'm steering clear of most Marvel floppies now but I'd buy that.