Natasha Romanov: Black Widow Appreciation 2018

[Whizbang]

Tom Brevort said most of the “Ed Brubaker players”—Bucky, Natasha, Sharon, etc—will be present in Captain America series.

WAIT WHERE?? I need a link to this

[millernumber1]

Something I find really interesting is that the fan-made Marvel wiki (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Marvel_Database) lists the new Natasha clone as a different character than the original Natasha, despite having all the same memories and DNA, and they include the Infinity Countdown story on the new character page. I wonder if Secret Empire is really the end of the line for our Natasha, if we're meant to consider this Natasha a new character, and how this case is different from, for example, the Steve that Kobik restored, or any other character who actually came back from the dead, without the death having been faked, like, say...Colossus in Astonishing X-Men. Presumably, resurrections like these are done with a new body, since the old one was decomposed. Do Marvel comics talk about the concept of a unique soul which would differentiate a case like Colossus's from Natasha's?

The thing is that with the whole assembly line thing the Red Room has going on and the in-house telepath (or whatever he is), it seems like it would be almost effortless for them to create another half-dozen identical Natashas without killing any if them off. And what if they did? They couldn't all be the same character.

At the time it seemed really important to both Marvel and the fans which one was the "real" Spider-Man and which was the clone. Although I can see the argument that it doesn't matter, since up until a certain point, they're functionally the same person.

And THIS is exactly why I hate clone stories. Because a clone is not just a body - they're an identical twin. If you give them the same memories, that's essentially brainwashing them into identity disorder, not re-creating the original person. I have no doubt that Marvel wants us to treat the character as the same person, but I really, really hate the terrible bioethics and sloppy moral writing that leads to this situation.

That being said, since I have no doubt that the clone thing will almost never be brought up again outside of this story, since it's just another resurrection, I have no problem with the character being Natasha. But it's really, really skeezy in terms of morals and ethics, and I really want Marvel (and all stories) to stop doing it.

[Dethi]

That being said, since I have no doubt that the clone thing will almost never be brought up again outside of this story, since it's just another resurrection, I have no problem with the character being Natasha. But it's really, really skeezy in terms of morals and ethics, and I really want Marvel (and all stories) to stop doing it.

I'm pretty sure, they'll don't stop anytime soon. I mean look as all the clone we had in the Marvel Universe, Spider-Man is probably one of the character with the most of them with all the storyline he got about that...

And I really hope they'll never use that idea again for her and that was only for resurrect her. But I don't really understand why they killed her to revive her just after the event ?

[millernumber1]

I'm pretty sure, they'll don't stop anytime soon. I mean look as all the clone we had in the Marvel Universe, Spider-Man is probably one of the character with the most of them with all the storyline he got about that...

And I really hope they'll never use that idea again for her and that was only for resurrect her. But I don't really understand why they killed her to revive her just after the event ?

Um. Secret Empire was ALL about bad ideas. I think killing Nat was just one of them.

[Dethi]

Um. Secret Empire was ALL about bad ideas. I think killing Nat was just one of them.

Well I do not totally agree with the first part but yeah, killing Nat was a bad idea.

[Witchfan]

If it's been done, I doubt it's happened since her defection, because A, they wouldn't have given her the memories of defecting and B, she would have remembered waking up in the Red Room. So at least the Natasha we've known and loved since the 60s is probably the same one.

Natasha was born in 1928. She was raised to be a Soviet agent. She was active as a spy in the 1950s. I believe that she was killed and cloned at some point between then and Tales of Suspense 52. This might be her second cloning. But is her new body just as sterile as her previous one?

[Matternativ]

Yeah it depend where Marvel want to go with the character. For my personal opinion, I totally see the clone Natasha as the real one for being a functional Natasha and totally can "replace" the dead one for ever. But I suppose ppl won't agree with me only just because she is a clone.

Technically most Avengers running around are the same. Barely anyone woke up in the exact same body they died in. So in hat context they are all clones of themselves rather than the actual original.

[responsarbre]

Natasha was born in 1928. She was raised to be a Soviet agent. She was active as a spy in the 1950s. I believe that she was killed and cloned at some point between then and Tales of Suspense 52. This might be her second cloning. But is her new body just as sterile as her previous one?

This all begs the question of when this technology was developed and who had ownership over it. The fact that every single appearance of the Red Room (besides the initial few by Grayson and Rucka) portrays a radically different organization which seems to have no affiliation with the previous incarnations is just so confusing for this. Would the GRU have had ownership over the clones? Would it be 2R (which went private)? The Red Room from Widowmaker? Recluse's Red Room?

I wouldn't like to think that Natasha has been clone-swapped while she was still working for them, but since Rosenberg left it open-ended, we just have to wait and see where they want to take it.

[Sneakronicity]

I'm still unsure how to feel about the whole clone angle. I really enjoyed Secret Empire up until the ending, and I never really thought the reasoning for leaving her dead was very good, so to bring her back so quickly in this manner seems strange. What was really the point of her staying dead in the first place unless the clone thing is going to have a larger impact on her character?

I'm trying to reserve judgement until I see how this plays out.

[OOTCS]

I'm still unsure how to feel about the whole clone angle. I really enjoyed Secret Empire up until the ending, and I never really thought the reasoning for leaving her dead was very good, so to bring her back so quickly in this manner seems strange. What was really the point of her staying dead in the first place unless the clone thing is going to have a larger impact on her character?

I'm trying to reserve judgement until I see how this plays out.

I'm starting to get the impression that literally everything that happened in Secret Empire was an elaborate excuse to get Clint and Bucky into a buddy team-up book.

Even the vomiting Inhuman

[Matternativ]

I'm starting to get the impression that literally everything that happened in Secret Empire was an elaborate excuse to get Clint and Bucky into a buddy team-up book.

Even the vomiting Inhuman

I mean... Considering I'm a huge fan of both books I'd be fine with that.
The vomiting Inhuman will probably end up being the secret mastermind behind Nat's resurrection.

[OOTCS]

The vomiting Inhuman will probably end up being the secret mastermind behind Nat's resurrection.

Why did they even bother with this whole Red Room clone thing? Just show Brian a picture of Natasha and be done with it, lol.

[Matternativ]

Why did they even bother with this whole Red Room clone thing? Just show Brian a picture of Natasha and be done with it, lol.

Yeah but that would be a bit disgusting and we can't have that, hahaha.

[Winterboy]

WAIT WHERE?? I need a link to this

Twitter, my friend.

[Thor-Ul]

Natasha was born in 1928. She was raised to be a Soviet agent. She was active as a spy in the 1950s. I believe that she was killed and cloned at some point between then and Tales of Suspense 52. This might be her second cloning. But is her new body just as sterile as her previous one?

Sliding timeline. Or we must return to explain also how Richards and Grimm are WW2 vets and Stark being hurt in Korea war?