Helena Bertinelli will be Dick Grayson's partner in Grayson

[Neowing]

Stole a spot? I'm sorry, but did you miss the part where several spots were stolen from her and she was shoved off into purgatory and benched for over two years? Or are you conveniently ignoring that just to complain about her coming back (and then to come up with artificial and synthetic complaints in order to justify the complaint?)

The void that Bertinelli left had left a few 'spots' open, and they were subsequently filled by both Helena Wayne (as Huntress) and Ev Crawford (as the Birds of Prey's Hot Badgirl).

I'm happy Helena is coming back, and apparently, so are most of the people in this thread. And there's no mutually exclusive reason as to why DC can't create new characters while bringing back old favorites. They've done that already by reintroducing Stephanie Brown and having her featured in a book with Harper Row.

Why can't they do that with this series? To say they can't is ridiculous and it's building up a flimsy, straw man argument that's nothing more than a thinly veiled way of saying 'I don't like the changes that will happen to this character', and prejudging them before they've even happened.

Helena Bertinelli is probably coming back in name only. Like you said, Helena Wayne has taken everything from her.

That's why I would rather have prefered a entirely new character who will probably make more sense to be Dick's teacher.

I'm not saying that this was a shitty decision but just that it wasn't the best one for Dick's limited world to expand.

[JasonTodd428]

It seems like a lot of people don't know what makes a good spy. Dick is a master of stealth, detective and so on. He was also trained by Batman with weapons so him using a gun isn't new to him. Being a spy won't be new to him at ALL.

Some parts of it will be. Just because he has experience as a hero and has some of the same skills a spy would doesn't mean he knows it all.

So why does he need a partner? Because hes probably the best spy in Spyral already. I also can't understand why he can't be Nightwing and a spy.

For the time being he can't be "Nightwing". He's ID has been exposed to the world and even if the common joe in Gotham might not have paid a lot of attention to that you can bet Dick's enemies did as well as Batman's rogue gallery. Using his former code name would paint a target on his back should the wrong person hear it. Besides of which his basically in hiding at Spyral. That's why his going to be "dead" to everyone else. My guess is he'd going to have a new code name unrelated to his previous one so that no connection between him and "Richard Grayson" can be made.

Also making Dick the "bestest spy evar" would be making him into a Gary-Stu. There's no reason to do any of this if he's just going to be best from the get go and I rather not see them do any more harm to the character than they have already done in the past by leaving him at the same level. I'd rather read about a character that is expanding his abilities and who is growing then to read about one that is stagnating myself.

Of course that doesn't mean that he'll not have an advantage going in since he was trained by Batman and I'm pretty sure he'll be a quick study once he starts his training with Spyral. I simply don't see how his training with Batman would have prepared him to become a spy. His training under Batman was to make him into a top notch fighter, detective, crime fighter and hero not a spy even if some of that training is similar in nature. Also up until now Dick has been working freelance so there be some things he'll need to learn as a part of something with more rules and procedures that need to be followed to the letter than maybe he's used to. He needs a partner to show him the ropes basically.

[The_Greatest_Username]

It sucks that Helena is the partner, she basically stole a spot for a new supporting character in his world which Dick REALLY needs in new52.

You would rather him make a friendship with a completely new character that's likely to be forgotten after the series than an already established character?
I feel like one of the things lacking in Dick Grayon's "life" post-Flashpoint is note-worthy friends.

[Punisher007]

I don't really mind if Helena is "different" as long as it's a good/interesting portrayal.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Some parts of it will be. Just because he has experience as a hero and has some of the same skills a spy would doesn't mean he knows it all.



For the time being he can't be "Nightwing". He's ID has been exposed to the world and even if the common joe in Gotham might not have paid a lot of attention to that you can bet Dick's enemies did as well as Batman's rogue gallery. Using his former code name would paint a target on his back should the wrong person hear it. Besides of which his basically in hiding at Spyral. That's why his going to be "dead" to everyone else. My guess is he'd going to have a new code name unrelated to his previous one so that no connection between him and "Richard Grayson" can be made.

Also making Dick the "bestest spy evar" would be making him into a Gary-Stu. There's no reason to do any of this if he's just going to be best from the get go and I rather not see them do any more harm to the character than they have already done in the past by leaving him at the same level. I'd rather read about a character that is expanding his abilities and who is growing then to read about one that is stagnating myself.

Of course that doesn't mean that he'll not have an advantage going in since he was trained by Batman and I'm pretty sure he'll be a quick study once he starts his training with Spyral. I simply don't see how his training with Batman would have prepared him to become a spy. His training under Batman was to make him into a top notch fighter, detective, crime fighter and hero not a spy even if some of that training is similar in nature. Also up until now Dick has been working freelance so there be some things he'll need to learn as a part of something with more rules and procedures that need to be followed to the letter than maybe he's used to. He needs a partner to show him the ropes basically.

Wait a minute...what about the stuff he learned from Matches Malone?

[Badou]

You would rather him make a friendship with a completely new character that's likely to be forgotten after the series than an already established character?
I feel like one of the things lacking in Dick Grayon's "life" post-Flashpoint is note-worthy friends.

This person gets it. We've seen plenty of new characters in the reboot for his supporting cast and they haven't amounted to much.

[Kurisu]

Helena Bertinelli is probably coming back in name only. Like you said, Helena Wayne has taken everything from her.

That's why I would rather have preferred a entirely new character who will probably make more sense to be Dick's teacher.

Which is exactly what Helena will be if she returns in name only, so...?

[Claude]

Which is exactly what Helena will be if she returns in name only, so...?

It would be a pretty sad showing for the character if people thought that she could do nothing without the Huntress identity without being "in name only".

Helena Bertinelli was one of the characters who had the most life and personality outside of their Costumed Role, to my mind. You could tell almost all of Cry For Justice without Helena being Huntress.

[gwangung]

The point is to give Dick his own corner in the new52, a place where he won't be a Batman lite according to the writers.

Like I previously said, being a spy won't be new to him at all but an agent of Spyral is another story which is why Helena is there for HOPEFULLY and not just to teach Dick generic spy stuff which he already should know.

Hm. Always though being a good spy was about specifics and intelligence. All the physical stuff....he knows. All the mind games he has to play---he's capable, but not experienced. And knowing when to play which particular tactic---well, he needs to learn that from the ground up.

[gwangung]

It would be a pretty sad showing for the character if people thought that she could do nothing without the Huntress identity without being "in name only".

Personally, I think it's a sad showing for fans---a lot of them can only recognize characters if they dress up in the right costumes and have the right hair color (and, if they're women, have long legs and big boobs).

Helena Bertinelli was one of the characters who had the most life and personality outside of their Costumed Role, to my mind. You could tell almost all of Cry For Justice without Helena being Huntress.

Let's see. Deep, dark, mysterious. Works from the shadow. Might have anger issues, but controls them tightly. Can be very ruthless, but might have qualms about it. Yeah, I think this Helen Bertinelli could do that. Might have a code name like, Diana. Or Artemis.

[JasonTodd428]

Wait a minute...what about the stuff he learned from Matches Malone?

Undercover work? Sure spies do that but as I said before just because some of his training under Batman is similar doesn't mean that his already has "extensive training" all areas of spy work therefore he shoudn't be able to best someone whose been at it for years the second he walks into Spyral HQ. I'm sure there are going to be things dealing with spy work that he has no clue about just as I'm sure there will be things that he's going to exceed expectations at due to his previous training. Nobody will likely be as agile as he is or have his skill level as a acrobat for example.

[OBrianTallent]

Personally, I think it's a sad showing for fans---a lot of them can only recognize characters if they dress up in the right costumes and have the right hair color (and, if they're women, have long legs and big boobs).



Let's see. Deep, dark, mysterious. Works from the shadow. Might have anger issues, but controls them tightly. Can be very ruthless, but might have qualms about it. Yeah, I think this Helen Bertinelli could do that. Might have a code name like, Diana. Or Artemis.

Now that could actually be an interesting and cool turn...calling herself Artemis, who was in mythology the huntress.

[JasonTodd428]

Now that could actually be an interesting and cool turn...calling herself Artemis, who was in mythology the huntress.

I actually like that idea as well.

[dropkickjake]

Now that could actually be an interesting and cool turn...calling herself Artemis, who was in mythology the huntress.

Doubt this will happen, but I'd be cool with it.

[Kid A]

Now that could actually be an interesting and cool turn...calling herself Artemis, who was in mythology the huntress.

This is a really cool idea. Although I'm partial to the Young Justice Artemis, her mother is ironically the original Huntress.