Avengers 40 *Spoilers*

[Reviresco]

So they just happened to to build and store all the bombs in Wakanda for convenience? Or was it because that was the only place to manufacture and keep them secure, T'Challa and Wakanda's resources were used heavily throughout the whole run, and I don't think it's an accident. Namor's lucky he survived as long as he did for the crimes he committed. And Black Bolt couldn't have been too happy he settled up with Thanos and Maximus either.

LOL!

Seriously? They weren't so secure that Thanos didn't get his hands on them TWICE. The bombs were in Wakanda because of plot contrivance or T'challa was an idiot -- take your pick. And no, I seriously doubt Wakanda's resources were used, since T'challa wasn't king of Wakanda.

I wait in anticipation for Black Panther to pay for the same crimes he committed.

[Orbus]

No it's a bunch of "hero vs. hero" garbage that relies on massive plot contrivances and heroes acting like idiots and a-holes. In other works, the same crap that we've been seeing over and over and over again for years now.

So you didn't actually read it?

[Viteh]

Black Bolt's line was "When you see my brother Maximus...bid him..." and then yells FAREWELL!.

[InformationGeek]

I actually thought Hickman should have introduced the blade earlier, like at the start of his New Avengers run. To me it sort of felt like it just popped out of thin air just so T'Challa have use it now.

To be fair, this issue felt very rushed and anti-climatic. Everything wrapped up so... conveniently, like Hickman stretched things out for too long and realized he needed to wrap a few things up very quickly. It's just not believable.

[celeherald]

LOL!

Seriously? They weren't so secure that Thanos didn't get his hands on them TWICE. The bombs were in Wakanda because of plot contrivance or T'challa was an idiot -- take your pick. And no, I seriously doubt Wakanda's resources were used, since T'challa wasn't king of Wakanda.

I wait in anticipation for Black Panther to pay for the same crimes he committed.

Do those crimes include a giant wave killing thousands of people? Or sending Thanos' army to Wakanda killing thousands more? Did I miss an issue where he did that?

[vitruvian]

Hickman's slow burn is starting to really heat up the last few issues:

Reed reveals the plan to settle up with the Cabal and surprisingly, Steve agrees.

I think it's finally revealed why exactly Steve is chasing them: the destruction of the Great Society's Earth and probably the creation of the bombs in general, unless I'm reading it wrong.

The plan involves Namor trapping the Cabal on the Mapmaker world, Thanos and Maximus say that time is running out and therefore requires the whole Cabal to go.

T'Challa makes his move by stabbing Namor and Black Bolt blasting him off the world shield platform, but lets him wake up to know that this is how he plans to kill him.

T'Challa detonates the bomb destroying the Mapmaker world and the Cabal (presumably).

T'Challa returns with Steve asking him where Namor is, he replies he's not coming to the shock and sadness of the assembled heroes.

This was a good issue, but although I was pleased at Steve's willingness to actually talk and being mollified to some degree by his old friend Namor being willing to pay the piper when all is said and done, it's still rather strange how he didn't want to even hear about the 'carrot', their supposed long-term solution to the Incursions. Getting rid of the Cabal is great, and something even Steve wanted enough that they were willing to work together, but it doesn't solve the initial problem and leaves them back in their original spot of having to figure out how to save the world without committing genocide, or if they're willing to do that if it comes to it.

It just strikes me as weird that Steve feels so little urgency about preserving life, as opposed to keeping others from deliberately taking it (except from the Cabal, who are no innocents, so fair enough), that he doesn't even want to know if a solution has been found.

[ekrolo2]

don't let facts get in the way of a good revenge plot. we have t'challa's dignity to consider.

Dignity? No, all of the Illuminati lost any dignity when they started this. They must die and die horribly, all of them. Weather it be amongst each other (which was totally perfect in this instance) or from some one else (I pray Steve gets to rid himself of Tony Stark soon).

Yes, how terrible. Namor's only saved countless people and a multitude of universes, including 616 what, 15 times?

Yes and he only had to murder about over billions and billions of good, innocent people who did absolutely nothing to deserve it what, 15 times? Yeah, if those were all evil alternate universes where everyone was a amoral scumbag such as in Earth-3 I'd be kind of okay with it. But the fact of the matter is they weren't, they murder billions of good people for their own asses and at this point, 616 isn't worth saving at all so might as well let the thing die.

[Reviresco]

Eh keep living it will happen eventually. Might be awhile but it will come in some form.

Sorta cheap though....Hickman couldn't had this be some really outstanding battle. Two great warriors handling things like the Kings of old but instead he had BP sneak attack Namor. At least his back wasn't turned but dang what weak move. All this waiting for that. Could have been better.

BP isn't the same weight class there, so he has to go that route. Besides, I'd rather not see Namor jobbed yet again.

[MB99]

LOL!

Seriously? They weren't so secure that Thanos didn't get his hands on them TWICE. The bombs were in Wakanda because of plot contrivance or T'challa was an idiot -- take your pick. And no, I seriously doubt Wakanda's resources were used, since T'challa wasn't king of Wakanda.

I wait in anticipation for Black Panther to pay for the same crimes he committed.

It's pretty amazing how Hickman has completely flipped the script in one issue. Before toady it was Black Panther fans demanding justice with many saying it was never going to happen; now Namor fans are demanding justice with some claiming T'Challa has movie armor.

I'm sorry this has happened to your favorite character, but I'm pretty sure he'll be back sooner rather than later.

[Shaggy]

I hope we find out what happened to Shuri (last seen fighting Proxima, right?) before this arc is over.

[vitruvian]

thought hickman picked an awful choice to serve as an accomplice in t'challa's cold blooded murder.

the only consolation i have at the moment is the hope that hickman makes t'challa suffer an even worse fate and or death before his final issues are finished. there is no coming back from what t'challa and blackagon have done.

Yeah, it's not exactly clear what Blackagon's motivation was here, unless perhaps he was just Really Not Okay with Namor pulling the trigger on the Great Society Earth. Given how little Marvel usually lets us know of his thinking, down to him never learning a version of sign language other geniuses can become familiar with or even carrying around a notepad or cell phone from which he could text, I suppose that's possible, but I don't remember many hints of it.

[celeherald]

Dignity? No, all of the Illuminati lost any dignity when they started this. They must die and die horribly, all of them. Weather it be amongst each other (which was totally perfect in this instance) or from some one else (I pray Steve gets to rid himself of Tony Stark soon).



Yes and he only had to murder about over billions and billions of good, innocent people who did absolutely nothing to deserve it what, 15 times? Yeah, if those were all evil alternate universes where everyone was a amoral scumbag such as in Earth-3 I'd be kind of okay with it. But the fact of the matter is they weren't, they murder billions of good people for their own asses and at this point, 616 isn't worth saving at all so might as well let the thing die.

They also saved trillions and trillions.

[Reviresco]

Do those crimes include a giant wave killing thousands of people? Or sending Thanos' army to Wakanda killing thousands more? Did I miss an issue where he did that?

You obviously missed the issue where a Phoenix possessed Namor dropped a wave on Wakanda. Or the issue when Namor saved what was left of his people after the Wakandans committed genocide on them in a sneak attack under a flag of truce, by sending Thanos to Wakanda.

[XPac]

This was a good issue, but although I was pleased at Steve's willingness to actually talk and being mollified to some degree by his old friend Namor being willing to pay the piper when all is said and done, it's still rather strange how he didn't want to even hear about the 'carrot', their supposed long-term solution to the Incursions. Getting rid of the Cabal is great, and something even Steve wanted enough that they were willing to work together, but it doesn't solve the initial problem and leaves them back in their original spot of having to figure out how to save the world without committing genocide, or if they're willing to do that if it comes to it.

It just strikes me as weird that Steve feels so little urgency about preserving life, as opposed to keeping others from deliberately taking it (except from the Cabal, who are no innocents, so fair enough), that he doesn't even want to know if a solution has been found.

Given that an incursion was incurring at this very moment, perhaps the idea is that they should focus entirely on dealing with this one FIRST before going over how to deal with the later ones. The real reason is probably more for storytelling reasons as Hickman likely wants to save that for later, but I can sort of buy them saving that discussion for after the immiate problem is resolved, as long as they in fact have a long term plan.

[Trident]

BP isn't the same weight class there, so he has to go that route. Besides, I'd rather not see Namor jobbed yet again.

Even still. BP is supposed to be a genius the guy could have made something that put him in his weight class to end it in a way that didn't disrespects Marvels first character by the mediocrity of it and while also not having BP looking like an opportunistic coward yet again.

It's just sad and distasteful the maner to which it happened. This could have been and probably should have been a grand spectacle between kings but in the end it amounted to a bar parking lot killing.