Avengers 40 *Spoilers*

[celeherald]

I don't know how you can label Namor's actions with Thanos crimes against Wakanda, when two minutes earlier, Black Panther did the same exact thing.

I didn't say everyone was supposed to be okay with the tidal wave. But laying that entirely on Namor, isn't correct either. Especially when he offered compensation / peace terms.

I remember in that issue, that T'challa wanted Atlantis squashed, but only agreed to Namor's offer of peace because he knew they needed to focus on the Incursions. I also remember what T'challa did NOT do in that issue. He didn't immediately tell Namor that the truce was off.

Namor's actions also could've killed the planet, he sent Thanos to where the bombs were too. So namor was justified in trying to kill the Wakandans twice now? And why should BP warn them first? So that the attack could fail and Namor could try to kill them again? He did the right thing by recommending that they not pursue war, not sure what else he was supposed to do. Namor was reckless and stupid even in Doom's eyes because he chose to free Thanos and his gang and Terrax. He did the best thing available by blowing up those Earths, but he had to pay at some point.

[Trident]

For myself, I wasn't demanding justice. I was pointing out a double standard, as far as 'crimes' committed and the expectations of those making such claims. I have zero desire for Namor to have anything to do with Black Panther at all -- including revenge or "justice." Just get him away from the character, and keep him away from him forever. It's someone else turn to be a prop.

This is were I am as well. Namor whole story got turned and put into Black Panthers world for no reason outside of making T'Chala look better. It worked to an extent but the means to which it was done is just awful.

But in saying that all in all Im glad it's over. Best case scenario Namor comes back saves the day or returns outside of Hickman's story. Few years down the road some writer will have his own story to tell that has the roles in reverse and BP gets his and the cycle will continue. But until that time comes Namor will probably(hopefully) be done with BP for awhile. Not much else Hickman can do to him after the butter knife attack.

[Froggy]

of course i do.

it is just my sincere hope that all of the illuminati suffer horribly before this is over. if namor is the only one to die before this ends, i will absolutely call foul and you should at least agree with me on that.

Lol UH, dude, of course they're all gonna suffer :/ Hickman said this was not going to be a bright, fun book. There's a lot of trife behavior and actions happening.

Have you not been reading these series? No one is coming out sitting pretty. No, I won't agree with you cause I'm not salty like you seem to be over this dude. Like, this is comics right? No body=no death. Even if he is dead, we all know he won't stay that way.

[Froggy]

I suggest you visit some Namor threads or read some of his books, then, because that wasn't how Namor was portrayed at all. He's an anti-hero, but he's not morally ambiguous. Even in this book, more than anyone else, he was the only man of convictions, who sacrificed everything to save other people.

That most certainly was NOT the death he deserved.

This book is a tragedy though right? I don't think just desserts qualify in a tragedy.

[XPac]

Namor's actions also could've killed the planet, he sent Thanos to where the bombs were too. So namor was justified in trying to kill the Wakandans twice now? And why should BP warn them first? So that the attack could fail and Namor could try to kill them again? He did the right thing by recommending that they not pursue war, not sure what else he was supposed to do. Namor was reckless and stupid even in Doom's eyes because he chose to free Thanos and his gang and Terrax. He did the best thing available by blowing up those Earths, but he had to pay at some point.

Releasing Thanos was potentialy dangerous... but not necessarily stupid.

Thanos and his crew had the power to overcome whatever obstacles they might face (be it map makers of Black Priests or Squadron Supreme or whatever), and the willingness to use the bombs. Namor did exactly what needed to be done.

That doesn't mean that Namor, and the rest of the Illuminati for that matter, shouldn't pay a price for their actions. But at this point I still think you have to say what Namor did was both smart and necessary.

[AcesX1X]

Have you not been reading these series? No one is coming out sitting pretty.

let us pray for that.

[SKJoker]

Only real issue I had is that the first Earth should have been humanized more. Like what happened with Starbrand's reveal. Show the people living their lives before they're killed.

[Froggy]

let us pray for that.

Lol, you're a riot dude.

Only real issue I had is that the first Earth should have been humanized more. Like what happened with Starbrand's reveal. Show the people living their lives before they're killed.

actually looking back, I feel you on this, just out of pure curiosity

[XPac]

I suggest you visit some Namor threads or read some of his books, then, because that wasn't how Namor was portrayed at all. He's an anti-hero, but he's not morally ambiguous. Even in this book, more than anyone else, he was the only man of convictions, who sacrificed everything to save other people.

That most certainly was NOT the death he deserved.

Really, what Namor (and the rest of the Illuminati deserved for that matter) is exactly what Namor stated. Surrendering and going on trial. Regardess of what he did, he didn't deserve to be murdered in cold blood.

But the thing about trials and such is that more often than not, it makes for boring comics. Easier to just address the issue by having Namor seemingly killed so he's "punished" before returning to do his thing. T'Challa gets his revenge, Namor pays the price for his actions, and they can sweep the legal stuff under the carpet and move on.

[vitruvian]

Who the hell did they save?! The only ones they've saved is their own asses by murdering entire other universes! If they were just blowing up alternate Earths it wouldn't be as horrific but the fact of the matter is that they're killing everyone in those universes! Besides, what "facts" have you that they aren't, cause I sure do. The Justice League expy is an example of a good universe.

Each time, they saved the entire 616 universe, with billions of inhabited planets even if there was only one per galaxy, and the entire rest of the other universe apart from that Earth. They are not killing the other universe.

I think you need to reread in order remind yourself how the Incursions (and stopping them by blowing up the other Earth) actually work in this story, because you're arguing a case not based at all in Hickman's story.

[celeherald]

Really, what Namor (and the rest of the Illuminati deserved for that matter) is exactly what Namor stated. Surrendering and going on trial. Regardess of what he did, he didn't deserve to be murdered in cold blood.

But the thing about trials and such is that more often than not, it makes for boring comics. Easier to just address the issue by having Namor seemingly killed so he's "punished" before returning to do his thing. T'Challa gets his revenge, Namor pays the price for his actions, and they can sweep the legal stuff under the carpet and move on.

What legal entity were they ever going to answer to anyway? They had their own nations. Would it be the UN that agreed to a genocide? It always had to be them answering to each other.

[XPac]

What legal entity were they ever going to answer to anyway? They had their own nations. Would it be the UN that agreed to a genocide? It always had to be them answering to each other.

They've taken Namor into custody before, so in theory under circumstances at least they can do it again.

[markallenchi]

We didn't see any bodies, so I'm pretty darn skeptical that the Cabal ended right there. Maybe comics just desensitived me to death too much, but I'm assuming he got out of it.

Still, I do wonder if Reed has a plan for dealing with the NEXT incursion. Because the Cabal did serve a purpose.

Well, they all agreed to give up after the Cabal was finished (with the exception of Black Bolt and Black Panther). My guess is the Illuminati go to jail and the story start to focus on Tony and the Multiverse Avengers and Doom/MM.

[Prof. Warren]

Epic end to the Namor/T'Challa feud. This being comics, I wouldn't be surprised if Namor (and at least some of the Cabal) rear their heads again down the line but, for now, this seems to have put them all out of the picture. I would've liked to have had more time spent with the Cabal (especially with Thanos featured so prominently on the cover) but with so much else to get to, something had to give. In the end, Hickman's time was definitely better spent on wrapping up the conflict between Namor and T'Challa and, man, what a way to end that storyline. Wherever Time Runs Out goes from here, I imagine it's only going to get more and more brutal leading up to Secret Wars.

[markallenchi]

justified cold-blooded murder? maybe if you're a super-villain. hickman promised us 10 more issues of misery and suffering so if you think this is all wrapped up in a happy bow for the rest of those illuminati dogs you are in for a sad few months.

Have you not been reading the story? All the way back to Avengers vs X-men, Namor has recked havoc on Black Panther and Wakanda. And Namor is not the first mutant, Apocalypse is.